8mm Forum: Filming with Super 8

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Posted by Mark Norton (Member # 165) on March 29, 2007, 12:15 PM:

I've got a film project that I need to film ,edit and sound stripe before the end of April. Thinking of using Koak 64T as allthough it is not my favorite, this seems to be the most reliable film stock that runs in a Kodak cartridge.
I was wondering who offers the fastest turnaround?

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on March 29, 2007, 01:33 PM:

Mark-

For the sound striping, DEFINATELY use EVT Electronics in the U.K. They are very fast (less than two week turn-around even for me here in the U.S.A.). Plus, they have been able to put a good stripe on the new film stock 64T, with no problem of the stripe coming off, etc.

As far as processing, here in the U.S.A., Dwaynes Photo has next-day processing at no extra charge. But I imagine you might be able to get a fast turn-around for processing from someone in the U.K.

James.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on March 29, 2007, 01:57 PM:

It'd be interesting to know what turn around time Blue Audio in Islinglton have for their E64T processing, their prices seem pretty competitive.

Maybe if Bart is reading this he could tell us [Wink]

.

I agree with Nick that EVT are the way to go for sound striping - very good service.

Now there's a thought, how about Blue Audio or someone doing a price for processing including sound striping...

Mike [Cool]

Posted by Mark Norton (Member # 165) on March 29, 2007, 02:32 PM:

Yes that would be great if there was a processing + sound striping service so that the processed reel came back with the stripe allready on it. Seem to remember from Small format magazine that this service was available with the Fuji cartridge, said nothing about Kodak cartridges.

Posted by Ernie Zahn (Member # 274) on March 29, 2007, 02:33 PM:

I havn't tried it myself, but Spectra offers 50D reversal Super-8 stocks made by Fuji. It's $35 a roll (includes processing) and is supposed to have equal if not better quality than k-40. Even thought the ASA seems to be a bit higher. I was thinking of giving them a try but that $35 price is telling me to think about it [Razz]

Does EVT have a website?

Posted by Mark Norton (Member # 165) on March 29, 2007, 02:52 PM:

I've used the Fuji Velva 50ASA Daylight Cineva Cartridges with stunning results. Unfortunatly whilst they run in my basic Eumig Camera with no problems they do not perform very well in my Nizo (which can do Lap dissolves, time lapse etc.) that I intend to use.

Posted by Ernie Zahn (Member # 274) on March 29, 2007, 02:55 PM:

It's a good thing I didn't buy it then. I own a Nizo and wouldn't have known till I bought a roll.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 29, 2007, 02:55 PM:

The Spectra Velvia is interesting stuff. Once the last of my K-40 is gone I definitely intent to give it a shot. It's really not that much more than 64T, and the difference in price will be worth it if the images are nicer. Let's face it, if you want cheap, you grab a (shudder) camcorder.

Mark, what kind of troubles were you having with the Velvia? Jitter? Jamming?

I'll agree the price does sting given that not more than 3 years ago I was getting K-40 with processing direct from Kodak for $13.50 (Man!, I shot a lot of film back then!)

EVT doesn't have a 'site, but you can reach him via e-mail at magevt@amserve.com . I've sent films to him and was very pleased with the service and the quality.

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on March 29, 2007, 03:58 PM:

Hello Mark!

I´d use E64 and process at ANDEC Berlin. Your Nizo will probably expose the E64 correctly too, my Nizo 6080 did that. [Smile]

http://www.andecfilm.de/

Best Wishes
Lars

Posted by Mark Norton (Member # 165) on March 29, 2007, 05:03 PM:

Yes Steve, the Nizo some times gets the jitters and I don't fancy my chances with lap dissolves. Is 64T lubricated to give smoother running in the cartridge and is this why there were problems with sound striping?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 29, 2007, 05:42 PM:

Yes Mark,

I believe that's the case.

Have you noticed a jittering with the Nizo and other stocks as well?

-actually, I really don't need film stock right now. I need inspiration! I've been making films steadily for 6 years now, and I'm prone to making the same ones over and over without even realizing it!

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on March 29, 2007, 11:40 PM:

Steve,
That needn´t be a bad thing: look at Hitchcock! [Smile]

Then we talk about an Auteur and reoccurring themes in his canon ... [Big Grin]

Best Wishes
Lars

Posted by Mark Norton (Member # 165) on March 30, 2007, 03:09 AM:

Steve,

Only had problems with the Cineva in the Nizo. Some Cineva Cartridges run with no problems, but some seem to "go tight". Put the same tight cartridge in and the Eumig will usually run it, it is less fussy and seems to have a stronger drive. Not sure if the temperature / humidity of the film inside the cartridge could play a part in the problem.
You might think why put up with the Cineva? When the Film is developed it is stunning. I'd still rather put up with the odd sticky cartridge (as they will usually run though my Eumig) than the product be withdrawn and not have the option of getting the Fuji film stock.

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on March 30, 2007, 03:55 AM:

Mark,
I shot some Kodachrome super 8 in south america in june, a few years ago. Humidity was really bad, and the film would -not exactly jam, but- refuse to pull down after a few seconds. I had to remove the cartridge, manually advance the film an inch, and then you could shoot for another few seconds. Indoors airconditiioned there were no problems.

Could this be of help?
Lars

Posted by Bart Smith (Member # 780) on March 31, 2007, 05:37 AM:

Mike Peckham said...

quote:
It'd be interesting to know what turn around time Blue Audio in Islinglton have for their E64T processing, their prices seem pretty competitive.

Maybe if Bart is reading this he could tell us .

I agree with Nick that EVT are the way to go for sound striping - very good service.

Now there's a thought, how about Blue Audio or someone doing a price for processing including sound striping...

Our process-paid deal is in association with Andec in Berlin - Turnaround time is typically 10-15 days, much the same as it was in the days of K40 process-paid. If you buy the film process-paid from us you send the cart direct to Andec, which means you don't have to see our ugly mugs or speak to us on the phone more than once!

As to a deal including sound-striping it's certainly something I will consider, although I suspect it would be a logistical nightmare! I've sold (according to my shop database) about 1500 rolls of reversal in the last 12 months - I would imagine that I will sell more over the next 12 months as we have not been active on the web for long, and sales are ramping up.

But I would imagine that demand for sound-striping would be a tiny percentage of the number of rolls sold, simply because nearly all of our customers get their film transferred to video these days (shame on them!). Projection is a dying art, I'm afraid to say.

Mark Norton said

quote:
Thinking of using Kodak 64T as allthough it is not my favorite, this seems to be the most reliable film stock that runs in a Kodak cartridge.

I recently looked at a customers test-reel on our GS800 and I've got to say that in my opinion 64T looks even better than K40 ever did. Andec in Berlin have been tweaking their processing, and the results are excellent. If anyone out there tried 64T when it first came out and felt a bit disappointed, give it another go!

Posted by Ian Kemp (Member # 548) on October 20, 2007, 09:17 PM:

Hi guys,

i noticed two magic elements in your thread - 'Nizo' and 'lap dissolve': i have been using a Nizo 801 for a couple of years with great results, but suddenly it has started jamming in the middle of each dissolve - it winds back to halfway then sort of hums, where it should click'n'stop: then it's stuck - the only way to really get it moving again is to slightly open the camera, which dislodges the cartridge, and close it again: goodness only knows what the effect on the dissolve will be?

any tips for curing this malfunction, please - i wondered if a drop of WD40 or specialist oil somewhere might ease the motor ... ?

thanks

R

Posted by Marc Marti (Member # 404) on October 21, 2007, 08:44 AM:

Mark, I recommend you the Ektachrome 100D from Wittner.
Same excellent colors of the 64T but no grain...

It's more expensive, but worth a try.

Good luck with your project!

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on October 21, 2007, 09:36 AM:

Just out of interest where is the kodak 64 and 100 manufactured these days, is it europe or all originally made in the US, or the stock sourced from the US then slit and pagaged in the EU.
Best Mark.

Posted by Bart Smith (Member # 780) on October 21, 2007, 04:31 PM:

Kodak closed down their Super 8 production plant based in Chalon-sur-Saone in France a year or so ago. All Kodak Super 8 film is now manufactured, slit, perfed & packaged in the USA.

100D in Super 8 is sold by Kodak only as 400ft lengths of DS8. Other companies (including Wittner) split and reload it into Super 8 carts.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on October 21, 2007, 04:34 PM:

Thanks Bart, just bought a bauer C 3 on the hop as only a couple of minutes to go so no time to find where to check if 64 is OK, anyone know if it is please or a chart where I can look, I know some of the later bauers are OK.
Thanks Mark.

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on October 21, 2007, 04:43 PM:

Hi Mark,i used some early 64T and yes it did come back a little grainy but more recently the last four films came back with really superb results and couldn't really fault them.I bought my films through Bart at his shop and the processing from Andec is a really quick turn around highly recommend it best Mark.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on October 21, 2007, 04:47 PM:

Sounds good, all I need now is a 150 watt lamp projector !!!! to blast them through.
The good lady is going to be really happy when I get a cine camera out !!!!!!!! to film the kids !!!!!
Once it lands if all is OK for the 64 etc I`ll give bart a try.
Best Mark.

Posted by Bart Smith (Member # 780) on October 21, 2007, 05:00 PM:

Mark - I know that the Bauer C2 reads 64t OK, and I would have thought that the same should be true of the C3, but I can't answer that particular question authoritatively at the mo...

It is easy to determine whether or not any camera it will read 64T correctly by examining the notch sensor/switch mechanism located 1/2" or so above the film locating pin adjacent to the gate. If it has a simple switch, it is a 40/160 only camera.

If the assembly looks more complex, it will probably read 64T. The typical configuration for most Super 8 cameras (which can read 64T) is a stepped switch about 1/3" or so long which you should be able to push into the body of the camera in the direction of the lens. Different "steps" are pushed in by different notch sizes on the camera, allowing it to determine what speed the film is.

THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THIS RULE - But not in the case of any Bauers that I remember coming across.

The other easy way to determine the speed that a camera will recognise is to look inside the film chamber and see what is written there. Some cameras will say "Film speed 40, 160" or similar. These will read one or the other, but not the speeds in between. Others will say "Film speed 40-160", and should read 40, 64, 100, & 160.

Again there are exceptions - there are cameras which will read an even wider range of speeds, as the Super 8 notching system ranges from 16-640T (=10-400D).

Your comment about later Bauers being OK is the wrong way round I'm afraid! Typically (and this is true of Bauers) earlier models were capable of reading a wider range of speeds. By the mid 70s or so manufacturers had cottoned on to fact that film was only being produced in 2 speeds, 40 & 160, so they cut down on production costs(and presumably failure rates) by installing the simple switch as described above. At the risk of repeating myself, there are, of course, exceptions to this rule!

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on October 21, 2007, 05:05 PM:

Oh I wish I`d bought a 2, so its fingers crossed on the C3 until it lands.!!!! I haven`t shot film since about 96/97 !!!!!
Anyway it looks like I bought the right vintage for a chance at least. I think they were made by chinon, a classy reserved look to them.
Best Mark.
UPDATE
I think I found a date 1968-1972 so heres hoping. I`ll try to post a shot of one too.

Posted by Bart Smith (Member # 780) on October 21, 2007, 05:18 PM:

Hi Mark - I just took a look at the completed listings on ebay. I'm afraid to say that I'm 90%ish or so sure that the camera pictured won't read 64T correctly. The camera you've bought is a C3 XL, not a C3 - Assuming that you are ebay user waitomoglasgow.

Bart

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on October 21, 2007, 05:23 PM:

Hi Bart its definately a C3 if you have mail on here I`ll send a piccy if thats OK.
Best mark.

Posted by Bart Smith (Member # 780) on October 21, 2007, 05:28 PM:

Hi Mark, click on my PM, there's an email there....

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on October 21, 2007, 05:38 PM:

Hi Bart, assuming I put the address in OK its gone off alright, looks nice hope its a worker !!!!
Thanks for the help too.
Best Mark.

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