8mm Forum: Projector Reviews (Another bright idea..)

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Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on April 15, 2007, 02:25 PM:

Oh no. I have had another bright idea..
It sure would be fun to have a forum for "Projector reviews". Those who own and love the machines they own could right a review on them. May even help others who own the same machines to keep em going.
Just a thought..

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on April 15, 2007, 04:17 PM:

Well, I'll certainly give it some thought, Lee. Lets see what others think, and if it's a goer, I'd be happy to contribute. However, as it's your idea, I think you should kick-off anyway.

Best,

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on April 15, 2007, 06:47 PM:

Sadly, I wouldn't be much good on this subject, but those who are of a technical nature will love it. I know that I would certianly get a lot out of it. My goodness, the technical know-how would be a godsend for a lot of us!

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on April 17, 2007, 05:05 PM:

Well, Lee & Osi,

Still a little quiet on the "Projector Review" front, but let's give it a few more days to see if anyone else is interested in following it up.

The thing is, it will be quite a time consuming exercise if the information is to be meaningful, and would probably need pictures and several different headings. I know what it's like, as I have written many technical instruction manuals in my business, and have come to appreciate over the years just what is involved.

I am sure it would be a very interesting and helpful additional aspect to the Forum, and could be on a very sporadic informal basis without the need for a separate subject heading - unless our dear Moderators felt otherwise.

Nothing more to say at this point. Let's just "watch this space".

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on April 18, 2007, 04:44 PM:

Problem is we all have our own favourites I expect. Human nature and all that to say how great our own machines are, and the GS1200 brigade (me included) will be saying how great they are also. Crumbs, I am even getting to like my new Bauer projector. But it would be nice to hear people’s experiences with the machines they have owned for many years possibly.
Come on folks. Be brave..

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 18, 2007, 05:05 PM:

Hi Lee,
To kick things off, here is a 'replay' of a test report I posted just over a year ago on my all time favourite projector - the Eumig S938 Stereo:

EUMIG S938 STEREO PROJECTOR
The Eumig S938 Stereo projector is a full stereo capable machine with 150 watt lighting, 800ft spool capacity, and twin 20 watt stereo amplifiers. It is a gorgeous looking machine, finished in black, with white lettering on all the controls. Weight is 24.5 lbs. The quality of construction is excellent, being built on a cast aluminum chassis with thermoplastic front and back covers. It is a very solidly built machine, but not quite up to the tank-like all metal structure and superb finish of the Elmo GS1200. But the GS weighs a hernia-inducing 35 lbs!

The Eumig S938 Stereo projector is the successor to the Eumig 926 GL Stereo and shares much of the mechanical and electronic features of the 926GL. The 926GL is an otherwise excellent projector (with a superb sound system) marred by a terribly ill- conceived coaxial reel system. For whatever reason (perhaps for TV type projectors), Eumig designed their early 900 series machines with two coaxial reels on the rear of the projector, so the film had to go through a rather tortuous twisted film path before reaching the film gate. Added to that they also eliminated the top feed sprocket and replaced it with a tiny flapping isolation roller. While this sytem transported the film reasonably satisfactorily, it resulted in a jerking motion on the film supply spool and a distracting noisy thrashing of the long film length preceding the first feed roller. It also made loading and unloading the film a bit of a pain.
This problem has fortunately been rectified in the 938/940 where Eumig reverted to the traditional in-line reel system with top and bottom sprockets. Indeed the film handling of the 938 (and later 940) is now superb. The film auto-threading works faultlessly every time, and the running of the film is very quiet indeed, just a steady purr. Eumig also increased the spool capacity to 800ft and upgraded the lighting to 15v 150 watts. In order to utilize the higher wattage lamp, an additional small internal fan has been added specifically for lamp cooling.
The 938 lens is an f1.3 14-30mm incorporating Eumig's exclusive optical leveling system, which enables large vertical displacement of the projected image without having to tilt the projector. This feature has recently been adopted by Panasonic and Sanyo on their home theater video projectors where it has been renamed ‘ lens shift’. It is interesting to note that Eumig had this modern ,now hyped, feature 25 years ago! Anyway it works very well and you kind of miss it on projectors that don’t have it. Unfortunately this 1.3 lens is slow by modern standards and the projected image could be sharper, although the field is very flat. When I use my 938 I put in a much better quality f1.0 lens which moves the optical performance of this projector much closer to the 200 watt Elmo GS1200 in terms of screen brightness and image quality. Here is my own 938 fitted with a fixed focal length (non-zoom) f1.0 22mm Kodak Ektar lens, and ready for CinemaScope with the ISCO scope lens.

The big thing about the 938 (and also the 926) is the outboard sound console. This stunning looking panel has no less than 16 separate controls for recording, mixing, and playback of mono or stereo sound tracks. The recording and playback volume and mixing controls are all beautifully smooth linear potentiometer slides which are much easier to control than rotary knobs. It is equipped with two really beautiful illuminated moving coil analog recording meters, and a separate set of LED lights for each sound control. There is a green power-on light and an illuminated console panel light. In addition there are yellow LED's for each of the operating modes, a red signal lamp for recording mode, and yellow signal lamp for the mixing control. When you are recording, the 938 lights up like a Christmas tree! Because of this , sound recording on the 938 is a snap- much more convenient than on the Elmo’s where the sound controls are awkwardly located on the back wall of the projector chassis.
The stereo amplifier board contains no less than 44 transistors, 74 diodes, 7 operation amplifiers, 7 IC’s, and 2 integrated output stages. This huge board is mounted in its own separate housing which also forms the base of the projector and the control console. This is a much better arrangement than on say the Elmo GS1200 where the electronics are strung around the projector on multiple PWB’s which all have to be connected through wire harnesses. So the internal layout of the 938 is very neat and clean, making access and servicing very easy. The base of the projector has horizontal and vertical levelling adjustments. There is also an 'inching' knob on the back of the projector, and mounting holes in the front for a daylight viewer or 'scope' lens mount.
The mechanical functions are contolled by a single rotary knob for threading, forward with sound, forward without sound, reverse, and rewind. Power rewind is leisurely and therefore gentle on your films. The forward without sound function totally removes pressure from the sound heads, thus eliminating sound head wear when running silent films- a very nice feature!
Speed is continuously variable from 17 to 25 fps , contolled mechanically by a rotary knob. This is a very precision control, utilizing a ball on disc drive (vastly improved from the earlier Eumig 800 series) which is very light and smooth indeed. I have found this speed control is so precise that it makes re-dubbing of sound tracks from DVD video relatively easy. Of course it’s not pulse-sync, but for a mechanical speed control it’s probably about as good as you can get.
The gate is a hinged type which is only accessible by first removing the front cover. You can’t pull the gate out, so the best method of cleaning is with long cotton swab's and aero-duster. The sound head pressure pads are totally removable by turning a little red knob. This leaves the sound head totally accessible for easy cleaning . There is a mechanical counter which counts once every second at 18fps.
On the back of the machine are the usual recording/microphone input sockets, amplifier out, left and right external speaker sockets, and an earphone socket.
Sound recording and playback quality is truly spectacular. There is absolutely no trace of WOW , which cannot always be said of the Elmo GS1200. Playing back re-recorded stereo is stunning, with a quality which is indistinguishable from VHS HI-FI tracks. I have two Elmo GS1200’s and there is no doubt in my mind that the 938 sound quality is superior. Frequency response is 40 to 11,000hz at 18 fps, better of course at 24fps, and signal to noise ratio is better than 50db. The control console enables you to switch from track 1, track 2, 1+2 mono, or 1+2 stereo. You can also directly record track 1 on track 2, or vice-versa, and you can play back with track 1 controlling the volume on track 2 or vice-versa. There is also a PA function, and an auto-start socket on the back of the machine, which permits a frame synchronised flying start of an external sound source such as tape player or DVD. So the recording options are amazing- again superior to the GS1200.
So what do we have here in the Eumig S938 stereo? Well we have a gorgeous looking machine with the best stereo sound quality that I have yet heard on super 8. This projector will never scratch a frame of your film and it threads unfailingly and runs very smoothly. The 150 watt lamp is brighter than the ubiquitous 12v 100 watt lamp, but noticeably dimmer than the 200 watt GS1200. The supplied lens is mediocre, if you are serious about using this projector find a top quality f1.0 fixed or zoom lens and you will be in the big league with sharpness as good or better than the GS, but still a little dimmer. The recording capabilities, and ease of use, are better than the GS1200. The spool capacity is 800ft not 1200ft as on the GS 1200.
To summarize, Eumig got it all right on this one , producing a superb projector which beats the GS1200 in some very important areas, but does not quite come up to the superb brightness of the GS1200, and of course it only has 800ft spool capacity. But it is the perfect machine for home (as opposed to hall) use. A joy to use and operate, and stunning to look at.

[ April 19, 2007, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Paul Adsett ]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on April 19, 2007, 08:53 AM:

Paul,

Very impressive. I know how strongly you feel about your Eumig!
Now it's time use those super moderator powers to add "Projector Reviews" to the topic heading.

Doug

Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on April 19, 2007, 09:46 AM:

I thought Paul and myself made that point nearly a year ago Doug.
We left it into the powers that be to get it up and running.
Paul Adsett done the Eumig;I did the Sankyo stereo 800 andthe GS1200 STEREO.Over now to Doug,Brad and Kevin to get it up and running.Andy.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on April 19, 2007, 11:20 AM:

Andrew's reviews:

Elmo GS-1200

Sankyo Stereo 800

Posted by Peter Richards (Member # 738) on April 19, 2007, 01:03 PM:

I'd be very interested in a projector review section,i'm sure most members would be reading up on a regular bases,just like the print review section [Cool]

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on April 19, 2007, 02:13 PM:

Well, Lee. Looks like I was right in giving it a few days for the idea to gel. Several contributions coming in now.

As soon as I get some spare time, I'll add my pennnyworth.

Meanwhile, well done - another bright idea [Big Grin]

of yours seems to be taking off. Clearly it has been suggested before, but maybe the time wasn't right then.

Cheers for now,

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on April 19, 2007, 05:08 PM:

So far that's five in favor. It would be great to hear from more of you before we add a section to the Forum as opposed to just keeping it under the thread "Projector Reviews". By the way, the reason the topic title was changed was because Paul posted his review on this thread. Anyone looking at the title "Another Bright Idea" wouldn't know that there was a projector review hidden inside!
Another option is to have separate topics for each review (like Andy's) and have an index stuck near the top that would direct interested parties.

Doug

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on April 19, 2007, 06:13 PM:

I think it could be a useful tool. Quite often we don't choose the projectors we buy, but kind of stumble on them and wonder what we're getting ourselves into by buying, or what we're losing by not.

-At least here would be a database of machines we could thumb through, and not only with the features they came with as new, but how they've weathered the 20+ years since.

Example: My next projector is probably going to be some kind of Elmo ST-1200, but I'm baffled by all the different flavors this machine was produced in. It would be nice to have that kind of information in a defined place.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on April 20, 2007, 07:18 AM:

"So far that's five in favor"
This could be a problem for starting a new section. We took a gamble with the 9.5 and fortunately it looks like it has paid off in terms of posts.

Brad did spend some time getting the 9.5 sections up and running and I wonder if its worth it for a handful of projector reviews.
We should only have one review/model but do we have enough members with enough different makes and models to make it an interesting section and large enough.

Maybe it would be better to have a stickie in one of the forums that members could add to but I don't think we need to have dozens of reviews for say the GS1200 but one a bit like the one Paul did for the Eumig.

That's my thoughts guys. Now convince both Doug and I that it would really be worth it, well used and worth Brads time to set it up.

Kev.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on April 20, 2007, 08:31 AM:

kev

I agree with you, I think it would be very useful to have projector reviews on the forum, but I doubt there would be enough to justify a forum of their own, maybe they should be posted on this forum but accessible through a sticky thread with a link to each - a little like Doug created for the film review section.

Just my thoughts...

Mike [Smile]

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on April 20, 2007, 10:30 AM:

You've got my vote. As far as I remember, we discussed this a couple of years ago. Maybe a Sticky in the "equipment for sale" section?

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on April 20, 2007, 10:40 AM:

My Wife is in hospital at present, and evn she thinks its a good idea.
Message from her bedside.

At least all film gauges could go into it I expect?
Lee.

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on April 20, 2007, 11:52 AM:

Firstly, Lee. Please convey our good wishes to your lady wife. I'm sure I speak for all of us in wishing her well!

I think that, on balance, I'm with you on this one Kevin.

Quote from my earlier post:
"I am sure it would be a very interesting and helpful additional aspect to the Forum, and could be on a very sporadic informal basis without the need for a separate subject heading - unless our dear Moderators felt otherwise".
End of quote.

I agree that it would be a bit pointless having a couple of hundred reviews on 1 or 2 machines. Once the more popular projectors had been covered, where would we go from there? A pretty accurate concensus of opinion could be easily gleaned from a mere handful of reviews about a particular machine.

My feeling is that once those projectors had been covered, it might be interesting to restrict any further reviews to the rarer models - even some silent 8mm and various 16mm projectors, for example.

Obviously, I am thinking about my own machines, but there must be other members with the more rare models, which surely would interest many of us. Though I am not into 9.5mm, I have read with interest all the posts, and have learnt quite a bit!

Food for thought, maybe?

Posted by Peter Richards (Member # 738) on April 21, 2007, 07:52 AM:

I think it should have it's own section the same as Print reviews.

It would be a great asset to members looking for info on a projector that we fancy on ebay for instance.
We can quickly get a run down on how the machine runs including it's pro's and cons [Cool]

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on April 21, 2007, 08:09 AM:

How about a cine equipment review-section?
Then projectors of relevant gauges (8, 9.5, 16) as well as editors, splicers, etc could be posted there?

Cheers,
Lars

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on April 21, 2007, 08:40 AM:

How about a cine equipment review-section?
Then projectors of relevant gauges (8, 9.5, 16) as well as editors, splicers, etc could be posted there?

Cheers,
Lars

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