8mm Forum: I need help with my gs

This is topic I need help with my gs in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002909

Posted by Jose Artiles (Member # 471) on July 10, 2007, 08:38 PM:

Last night i try to sync my gs 1200 with a unit called "audiosync" that i buy in wittner kinotechnik( see photo)

,i make all the connections ,put the gs on ess mode and push the forward buttom but all my gs do was move the rear arm but never start to run with the first sound tone of the pal dvd.....for my desesperation and sadness....now i wonder if someone of you can tell me what i´m doing wrong.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on July 11, 2007, 04:05 AM:

Did you plug anything into the ESS port? Without a pulse going into the port the GS will not run. I presume there is a DIN lead with the Wittner box that goes into the ESS port but having never seen the box I can't be sure. If all else fails get one from Pedro as they work a treat http://www.super8sync.com/English/products.html

Once you have a pulse make sure the ESS gauge is dead in the centre.

Posted by Jose Artiles (Member # 471) on July 11, 2007, 05:39 AM:

Thanks for your quick answer Mr. Clancy,yes i put the din cable in the ess port,all connections are made properly but still dont run when i start the pal dvd....maybe it´s time think seriously to buy a pedro´s sync box.

Posted by Joerg Polzfusz (Member # 602) on July 11, 2007, 05:53 AM:

quote:
Wird ein Filmprojektor verwendet, bei dem für das "AUDIOSYNC" - Steuergerät keine Spannungsversorgung zur Verfügung steht (Pin 3 des 6-poligen Diodenkabels), dann ist eine externe Spannung von einem passenden Steckernetzteil (8V/100mA) bereitzustellen. Weiterhin ist es erforderlich, den DIP-Schalter auf der Platine in die Stellung: "separate externe Spannung" zu stellen.)

Looks like there are some versions of the GS1200 where you do need an external power supply for that device! (BTW: Even when you're sure that you don't need this: Check whether the DIP-Switch is set correctly.)

I guess that you've followed the instructions carefully step by step with all these "set box to 'STOP'", "enable ESS", "set box to 'FREI'", "start CD" ... -steps:
http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de/katalog/07_vorfu/quartz.php

You might also wanna check your cables and the volume of your CD-player.

Jörg

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on July 11, 2007, 11:45 AM:

I'm not sure this device is meant to activate the projector just when an audio signal comes from a DVD player. Instead there should be a specific type of sound input, like a "beep" which should last 1/25 of a second. That will cause the little box to activate the projector.
In any case it should be possible to activate this function manually by pressing the green button. Since I own the Pedro's device, I can't tell you whetr the switch on the right shold be set to "stop" or "free".

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on July 11, 2007, 02:37 PM:

Hi Jose, reading the description on Wittner site this unit can only manage 25Hz, that means 25fps. Is your ELMO a second series unit? If it's a first series it can only work at 18fps and this could be the reason why it doesn't work...

Flavio

Posted by Jose Artiles (Member # 471) on July 11, 2007, 08:45 PM:

Hi Flavio,thanks you and thanks to other menbers that help me .
uuups [Confused]

Flavio...you got te rigth,my elmo is a first series,its terrible for me to know now that i have to come back to old days when i sync "wild" with my yelco 810....its sad to know that i´ll never can make dvd sync at 25 fps [Frown]

....anyway thanks again to all the forum members that help me so kindly in this matter. [Smile]

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on July 12, 2007, 03:20 AM:

I'm not sure that is entirely true Flavio as Mr. Wilton's standard GS is a Mark 1 and that syncs' at 25fps. Also wouldn't Jose's projector give some sort of response even if it did sync' at 18fps? Surely it would go hunting for a pulse it could lock onto once something is being fed into ESS. Have you adjusted the pulse level setting Jose?

Do you have a Cresta Interface for the GS1200 or know anyone who does whom you could borrow it from? If you can track down one of these you can connect that to the ESS port and then use your body as a conductor for a pulse from the DVD video output into the high level input of the Cresta Interface. During bright video passages you should find the GS maintains some sort of sync'. It's just where darker frames come up on the video the signal requires cleaning up to maintain correct synchronisation.

Probably no help at all this but best of luck. And don't give up yet.

Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on July 12, 2007, 04:21 AM:

John,I to have the version 1 machine,and that's what it says in the instruction manual...18FPS?.However i think because of how old it is that is what ELMO fixed the pulse rate at for tape decks etc!.
Remeber Laserdisc and DVD'S were not around then.Andy.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on July 12, 2007, 05:53 AM:

My GS 1200s are both version 1s and whilst the instruction books for both state that they will only synchronise to 18fps, I often use the Pedro Box to synchronise mine to 25fps to run alongside a DVD.

My best example is Grease which is mounted on 2x x1200 ft reels, and having trimmed off and added a couple of frames to the front of one or two of the reels, once started in sync with the DVD, they will remain in sync for the whole 1200ft.

As John says, I think that if it wasn't going to sync up to 25fps, it would at least run and "search" for a pulse that it could sync to. Your problem must lie elsewhere...

Mike

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on July 12, 2007, 07:39 AM:

Mike, you are very fortunate if you have two first series that work at 25fps via ESS! I also have two ELMO 1-series and they don't work except at 18fps! I use the last version of PEDRO's box where you can set 18-24-25 fps by selecting the related quartz and I can confirm they work only at 18fps.
I tried also the software solution (without the Pedro's box) using a square signal with my pc and the sound card and the result is the same!
The only way I can syncronize my film is using one of my two ELMO GS1200 PCOM (second series) that work at every frequency.

Probably, as I was told some time ago in this forum, there are different versions of the first series, where the ESS has been updated (like yours) and I hope that also Jose's is one of them. For my two there is no chance!

Flavio

[ July 12, 2007, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Flavio Stabile ]

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on July 13, 2007, 03:34 AM:

Not that I know the answer but I wouldn't be surprised if switching to 25fps sync' from 18fps within the GS1200 only requires moving a connection from one place to another with a bit of solder.

One for Kevo perhaps?

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on July 13, 2007, 05:07 AM:

I thought all Elmo's would sync at 25FPS as well as 18 and 24.

With the first machines the user manuals stated that the machines would only run ESS at 18FPS. A separate sheet with the manual said this was an error in the manual and that ESS would operate at either speed.
Maybe one or two initial machines had this problem but I had a series one from the first batch in the UK and that certainly worked ok. I had not till now ever heard of a series 1 which doesnt work at 24/25. I think you must be very unlucky Falvio.

Kev.

[ July 13, 2007, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on July 13, 2007, 07:27 AM:

I concur. My recording machine is a series 1 and it runs perfectly at 25fps.

Posted by Jose Artiles (Member # 471) on July 13, 2007, 09:11 AM:

Im glad to know that all the elmos run to 25fps(thanks kevin and Jean Marc [Smile]

)so maybe my sync unit is broken,anyway i start thinking to buy a Pedro´s sync unit [Roll Eyes]

.....someone can tell me what will be the price for the 1008Q ? [Big Grin]

thanks in advance and pardon me for my poor write english.

Jose

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on July 13, 2007, 11:16 AM:

This is a good news! I will try to investigate better why both my two 1-series GS-1200 cannot be triggered at a different speed than 18fps!
Any suggestion is really apreciated!
However,using the digital frame counter of the PCom instead of the standard one is too useful and accurate that has convinced immediately me to use the PCom for any re-recording.

Flavio

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on July 14, 2007, 03:17 AM:

It seems to me you have two of the early machines that were set to 18fps sync' Flavio. I knew they existed but haven't ever come across one.

But as I said earlier, won't it just be a connection that requires moving from one pot to another?

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on July 15, 2007, 09:56 AM:

Thanks John... so what should I try do exactly?
Soldering what to what?

Posted by Jose Artiles (Member # 471) on August 02, 2007, 07:05 PM:

well friends,after a few nigths of thinking our spanish forum member and fantastic person,Xavier Gascón borrow me a new 25fps sync unit,i conect the unit on my gs and.... the projector start to run but not at 25fps,just almost 20fps,it´s strange because if a press the fast buttom the gs run at 25fps but once i quit my finger from it the projector give just almost 20 fps.I take a look inside of the speed board and see that there is two controls for the speed completely sealed from the elmo fabric and another two in the bottom level of the same control board,i wonder if one of that little controls from the bottom of the speed board is for adjust the ess speed,maybe Mr. Elmo can give me an advise on how to do.What do you think about this strange thing,friends?

Posted by Jose Artiles (Member # 471) on August 03, 2007, 06:54 PM:

Hi again friends,someone can give me an advice about the ess speed problem?? thanks!!!

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on August 04, 2007, 03:18 AM:

Jose, If your machine is running at 18 & 24 when using it for normal projection then I would NOT touch those speed controls.

This is a very strange situation and makes me think it has something to do with the Wittners box especially as the first one didn't work and now the second one works a 20fps.

I think it might be a money back time and try one of the boxes from Pedro if he's still producing them or maybe try one of the ones sold by FFR in Germany.

Kev.

Posted by Jose Artiles (Member # 471) on August 04, 2007, 08:50 AM:

Thanks for your reply Kevin.That´s exactly what i did,don´t touch nothing until an advice from you.What i did is to make a test with a FFR unit that gives 25fps crystal sync,as i told before, the machine start to run once the device from ffr was connected but not at 25fps,curiosly the machine run at almost 25 just when i press the fast buttom but if i quit my finger of it the gs back to 19 or almost 20 speed.of course i put the device in 25fps mode before start the test.One curious thing is if a put the ffr device at 16fps the machine run sync exactly in ess mode with the ess needle dead on center but if try the other speed(25 fps) the needle goes crazy and its imposible to center it,i start to think that Mr. Clancy have all the reason to say that some earliers gs only run at 18fps,my version 1 machine have a legend on the motor that say this : april 14 1978,maybe my machine can´t run at 25fps,what do you think Kevin?

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on August 04, 2007, 04:22 PM:

I dont think the motor date will tell us anything. I think Elmo only had about 4 batches made for the whole run of machines.

What I want to know is this: How do you know this is one of the earliest machines?
Does yours have a Black plastic or metal roller at the pint where you poke the film into the input slot?
If it has a black plastic roller do you have a small circuit board with 2 pots on it mounted next to the rewind motor?

If you have the Black Plastic roller and no circuit board then its certainly a Ver 1 machine. If it has the circuit board then its a later machine which should run ok at 25fps with the ESS.

I had a Ver 1 and mine ran at 25FPS via the ESS with no problems at all.

Maybe we could find out what other users serial numbers are of Ver 1 machines running without problems so that we can see if they are earlier or later than yours.

Help please from other satisfied customers [Smile]

Its also strange that if this were the case there is no ref to this or changes in the service manual!

Kev.

Posted by Jose Artiles (Member # 471) on August 05, 2007, 06:49 AM:

thanks for your answer Kevin [Smile]

.yes, my elmo have the black plastic roller without the circuit. The loop restorer look to the front.Is a version 1 machine,i hope this machine not belong to the first batch that only run at 18 in ess. [Frown]

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on August 05, 2007, 07:55 AM:

Yes thats certainly an early Ver 1 machine.

My original GS was from one of the first batches in the UK and cost me dearly at the time. I was able to use my Cresta pulse unit at both 18 & 24 on that machine.

There was a slip of paper in the front of the handbook with an addendum saying that the ESS worked at both 18 & 24 and not just 18 as stated in the handbook.

Lets see if others can give us some serial numbers of Ver 1 machines which work OK to see where yours lies in that range.

What's the serial number of your machine?

Kev.

Posted by Jose Artiles (Member # 471) on August 05, 2007, 06:48 PM:

Hi again Kevin and thanks for your answers.The serial number on my gs is: 822560
thanks you and all forum members for try to help me in this matter.

Posted by Jose Artiles (Member # 471) on August 10, 2007, 12:00 PM:

Well,i make a question to an old elmo technician here in my country about the two small control buttoms that is located under the speed control board,as i suspect one was for the 18fps speed pulses and the other for 24-26,the trouble is that he told me that if the machine can run in ess in both spedds i could adjust that little buttoms to obtain the needed speed of the ess pulse,not normal speed,but if my machine only is setup for 18 only one of the two little buttoms can activate to modify the ess speed until 18 and no more.....i make the test and,sadly,my machine only can run at 18fps,only one of the two little buttoms can modify the speed from 16 to 18....have some members of this forum hear something like this before?

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2