8mm Forum: AGFA thinner than L.P.P.

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 03, 2007, 10:41 AM:

Just on a lark, I decided to look at my film prints of Hoppity, one from Red Fox on AGFA (1977, beautiful print!) and one from Derann on L.P.P. (also quite nice). Each of the four reels has the same cut of scenes per reel, yet the AGFA reels are noticeably "emptier" or appear to have less per reel on them.

This would seem to denote that AGFA stock is a slimmer film stock than Eastman L.P.P.

Any comments?

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on October 04, 2007, 09:17 AM:

It sounds as if the Agfa is on poly and the Kodak is on acetate. That would explain it. There might be a microscopic difference in emulsion thickness, but I don't think you'd notice that unless you have a 2000 reel and then it might be a couple of millimeters.

John

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 04, 2007, 10:15 AM:

No, honestly, i have seen the difference on 400ft reels, and the cut of Hoppity is exactly the same.

The thickest film stock i have ran into is what was used on those Italian feature prints. i have a print of "The Rescuers", which is only perhaps 80 minutes long, and yet, it
COMPLETELY fills three 600ft reels, which can hold usually 31 minutes.

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on October 04, 2007, 11:05 AM:

I notice a difference when I splice up some Fugi Single 8 films which is on polyester. 4 x 50ft films only seem to take up around 150ft on a standard 200ft reel.

Graham S

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on October 04, 2007, 01:08 PM:

Strange I`ve usually found agfa poly thicker than LPP, also there is some thickish fuji poly prints wise but its thin camra stock wise.
Then of course you have the ultra thin poly kodak on some markettings which holds up so well it seems like LPP though early and 1000 feet goes easily on a 800 reel !!!!!
Glad to hear you got an LPP copy finally Osi and an agfa as well!!!!!! whats going on there then.
Best Mark.

[ October 04, 2007, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Mark Todd ]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 04, 2007, 03:19 PM:

I've actually had those for a few month's now and it has been an interesting comparison. The earlier print, the AGFA Red Fox print, is from 1977 (as the very edge of the leader states), and yet, the image is slightly brigher and a little more true to the original color. this is no slam on the Derann print, which is quite nice, but the Derann is slightly "dupey' looking, but still very good.

The reason for the superiority of the Red Fox AGFA print has really nothing to do with it being AGFA. The master negative leader, (which is included along with the RED FOX leader ... lots of yummy leader) has the original title "Mr. Bug Goes To Town Part 1 ect." on it, not the revamped "Hoppity" title, while the print it was taken from has a faded "Hoppity" title, (the added "Hoppity Goes to Town" title card was no doubt on faded eastman stock, right after you go past that, onto the rest of the credits, it has suprisingly magnificent colour!!!!), after the title, the color is great from start to finish.

This is interesting, as the last reel of the Derann has a slight color shift in the last reel. the last shot of Hoppity and Honey Bee, for instance, is surrounded by colorful flowers.
On the Derann print, the color is fine on the flowers on one side, but strangely colored on the other. On the Red Fox AGFA, the color is beautiful on all sides.

What does all this say? I believe that the master used for the Red Fox release of Hoppity, is one of the ORIGINAL NEGATIVES from the first run of "Mr. Bug Goes to Town" The sharpness is also superior on the AGFA. GAWD!!! How I need to incorporate screen shots from these prints!!!!

But in Derann's favor, the AGFA print has negative scratches on the RED FOX print, the Derann has no such scratches.

As this film is a particular passion of mine, i will figure out screen shot stuff so you folks can see the difference, frame by frame side comparison of the same frame stuff.

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