This is topic Reelistic thoughts on Super 8 ... in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.
To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003132
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 12, 2007, 10:22 AM:
I was thinking about a few thoughts I was having with the Faulkner, and it leads me to the conclusion that our films fading isn't the biggest problem we face as Super 8 collectors ...
No, the reel problem is with the projectors. Especially in the case of the L.P.P. and Agfa prints, our films will have a shelf life that's the envy of any celluloid handler. Our projectors are another story.
I note that i am having problems a plenty with my projectors. Though they have tended to be in relatively good running order, they are getting to be like a FORD car
Fix
Or
Repair
Daily
Lets face it, my best units are getting near the 30 year old mark. In fact, at most times, it is actually getting to be more cost effective to buy a good used one off ebay, than to send the broke down machine off to get it repaired.
I don't know how long these projectors were expected to function adequetely, but I'm betting the gentleman of this forum have pushed most of thier projectors WAY PAST thier warrantees.
So, the projectors are the main fear. Personally, when money gets to be a little more free, I am going to invest in a couple of like new Eumig's or ELMO'S and just set them aside with maintenance, so that when, years down the line the ones I use now peter out, at least I'll still have like new projectors to run my beloved films.
Your thoughts?
Posted by Mark Norton (Member # 165) on October 12, 2007, 10:59 AM:
Osi,
I believe, after my experiences with a clapped GS1200, that it is possible to keep one of these machines running indefinatly. Main motor, take up and rewind motors are all servicable and I have made up new brushes for all of these when they have packed up.
The gate and sound heads are very durable, just the sound head holder and guides need modification to prevent scratched films [which have all been covered on an earlier thread]. The only worries are the future availability of the main belt. Odd electrical parts go with age , but are all replacable.
Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on October 12, 2007, 11:29 AM:
Indeed...in the hands of an expert who knows all the in's and out's of projectors, electronics and motors....then sure, a projector can be kept running ...but most collectors are no where being experts....and many of the folks who claim to be able to repair machines are incapable of it...keep the machines forever and return them with the same problems or worse.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on October 12, 2007, 12:09 PM:
I look at it this way: the last Model T rolled off the line over 75 years ago, but you still see them driven by hobbyists
The last Lionel Standard Gauge train was built before WWII, ditto.
When was the last tube radio built? The last steam locomotive?
All of these old technologies still thrive because enough people loved them to develop a cottage industry of aftermarket parts and services, and that's where Super-8 will rise or fall.
Fords, Osi? I drive a 1988 Mustang GT that gets me back and forth to work everyday, and even with 162 grand on the clock can still run with the best of 'em.
Oh, and I never have trouble getting parts because if Ford doesn't have it there is a thriving aftermarket of repro and reconditioned parts!
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 12, 2007, 02:59 PM:
O.K. O.K. guys...
I hear ya on that. At least on the belts, I have usually been able to use a belt from a completely different machine on my projectors.
Speaking of projectors, has anyone, (besides myself) noticed that the Kodak Ektasound projectors have been going for rather high prices lately? For some reason, these have been rather trendy as of late.
Getting back to the topic, I do find that in most cases, it seems more cost efficent to just buy another projector instead of pouring money into an aging unit.
It's the same way with T.V.s Why take your 25 inch sanyo TV to the repairman, when another 25 inch will cost 145.oo dollars at Walmart?
Now the films? In most cases, irreplaceable! It's interesting to note the reactions of the audience when I screen my films. There is something wonderful to film. A big screen TV
(projected) while beautiful, is video and we know it. An actual projected image, even with the occasional scratches, is still a wonderful expereince
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on October 12, 2007, 04:10 PM:
I wouldn`t worry Osi there are so many machines around and so few running them heavily for film watching now there will be cheap back up little used machines around for a good bit yet.
Put 2 like new elmo st180`s etc in your cupboard out of the local free adds and you will be set for the next 30 years I bet.
Best Mark.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on October 12, 2007, 04:23 PM:
The funky part of it all is I've had the same 8mm projectors for years, but DVD players I go through like they're disposables. Since broken ones are never fixed, I guess they are! One day they don't work: out to the can, then over to the store and buy a new one. (Maybe cut the power cord off for a spare.)
I have a certain fondness for some of my projectors, with DVD players getting attached would just be inviting rejection!
25 years from now, there won't be a bunch of guys on a DVD forum like this, because not only will the format be obsolete ten times over, the gear will be dead and long gone.
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on October 12, 2007, 04:50 PM:
Now.... if Super8 projectors were built like "Vauxhall cars" ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
I would have given it up long ago ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I served my apprentiship as a mechanic mostly on american cars, we had the "Holy Loch" nuclear submarine base on our door step in the 60s, my favourite car was the "Ford Mustang" still is ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
anyway back to projectors lasting, I would like to think they would, but the reality is, "nothing lasts forever" and as many collectors are not technical people, can they afford the cost of fixing them,? plus will there still be films released in the future,? I am sure Super8 will survive but fewer people will use it, well I hope I am wrong time will tell ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
.
Anyone got a cheap "60s Ford Mustang" to sell ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Graham.
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on October 13, 2007, 01:34 PM:
I agree with Steve, Super 8 projectors will outlive video gear many times over. For example here is the condition of my collection of 8mm projectors:
Projector, Purchase Date, Condition,
Bolex 18/5 silent, 1963, Mint
Eumig S802, 1973, Worn drive disc
Eumig S820 Sonomatic, 1986, Mint
Eumig S926 GL Stereo, 1991, Mint
Eumig S938 Stereo, 2003, Mint
Elmo GS1200 Stereo, 2001, no optical playback
Elmo GS1200 Stero, 2004, Mint
With the exception of the Eumig 820, all these projectors were used when I purchased them!
In comparison, I will probably have to replace my Panasonic AE700 video projector after five years of use, if it lasts that long (already been back to the factory for repair after 2 years). If it fails at all in the next 3 years it will have to be trashed as the cost of repair is so high.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on October 13, 2007, 04:13 PM:
...and as Paul can rightfully testify, 9.5mm is still alive and kicking, why can't Super-8 be just as long lived?
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on October 13, 2007, 04:37 PM:
I think the answer is in whats the alternative and re 9.5 when 8mm then super 8 came along 9.5 still looked better than they did and home cine projectors were still the norm.
We are in an increaingly fast changing media enviroment watching films wise at the mo its all blue ray Hd DVD, soon it will all be massive hard disk, though I think people will still want at least a disk to collect at least really. Especially for a film you love.
By all accounts you can`t now make a comparrison between film and say blue ray projected on up to date preojectors, its not a fair comparrison for film and not what watching real film is all about.
We on here are all seriously addicted film/projector nuts and there will always be a core of us into film.
Lets face it, its another technowledgey, the internet that is actually helping to keep it going much longer than I think it would ironically.
Imagine this lack of connection and buying and selling etc, or a newbie trying to find out about it without the internet.Or someone wanting to find a fixer etc just a Kevin F online is a help.
I think we have to accept theres going to be a shrinking of the hobby and wain in hobbyists interest but the fascination people will feel when we daft lot trundle out our treasures I`m sure will not diminish.
My kids love the old rattly things going along and the reels going round.
Theres nothing quite like it, they are here to stay but more as curios lovingly kept, enjoyed and shared by those of us who just can`t shift it.
Best Mark.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on October 13, 2007, 08:53 PM:
My point is that 9.5 is basically without commercial support and has been for decades, yet people who are into it keep going. The same logic that states Super-8 is dieing should also have 9.5 dead by the 1990s, yet it lives on.
-where there's a will, there's a way.
What really kills these things is not so much lack of supplies but a lack of enthusiasts.
I agree that the 'net is a big factor. I wouldn't even be aware that there was Super-8 anymore without it.
My first contact was a 'net query to find out when the format died, and the rush I got when I found out it hadn't. The same day I ordered five rolls of film and a meter battery for my camera and I was back in business.
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on October 13, 2007, 11:45 PM:
I think for anyone who is in for the long haul with Super8, really needs to have a couple of back up projectors in good condition. There is no doubt in my mind that projectors in particular the GS1200 will give problems in the future, eg the take up/rewind motors, although you can fit brushes you cant fix the wear on the commutator segments, "the two brushes run on it" in my case the wear is bad, although the projector is running fine at the moment its only a matter of time, might be years before they fail, when that happens those motors are finished and unless there is an alternative motor that you can fit in its place, what are you to do.? for myself having back up projectors is the only thing I can think of at the moment.
Years ago, long before video and DVD, watching your home movies and bringing a bit of Hollywood in your home was something special, today so much has changed, people now use digital cameras etc, and with Hi-Def LCD TV, etc.. etc.. things are changing again, where does this leave Super8, well the thing I find of concern are the number of people selling off there Super8 for video, the problem here is that companys like Derann need "numbers" to make money out of a release and if to many people give it up, then what? and for those who have sold there gear for video they themselves might come unstuck in the long run, as I understand that VP sales have been dropping in favour of large LCD, Plasma TV so..what if the manafactures give up on producing video projectors .
Well the best bet is to buy up as many Super8 projectors that you can afford. and hope.
Graham.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 14, 2007, 02:15 PM:
It really does depend on how you maintain everything.
I still have my first DVD player, from the very first year they came out, (Phillips/Magnavox) and it still works great, though slightly sluggish. My video projector, (200 inch screen capability) still works just fine, having had some maintenance, and on it's second bulb, as well as having one of the LCD "plates" replaced, (just loved that parts warranty that i got when i bought it, paid 250.00, and got easily over 2000.00 in repairs on it!) It's bulky, compared to the modern projectors, but still, though one step under Hi-definition, I can't complain.
I'm hoping that i can learn more about projectors over time, which reminds me, what are the leading books I can buy about projectors and thier maintenance?
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on October 14, 2007, 03:18 PM:
I think Graham has made a good point here, namely that very complex machines like the GS1200 are going to give much more long term problems than some of the simpler machines. If it were not for the long term issue of sound head wear I would suspect that my various Eumig's would run forever - they are built that good and are totally reliable. Of course there is one projector that definately will run forever - the 9.5mm hand- cranked Pathe Baby (or Ace). Not much to go wrong there!
Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on October 14, 2007, 08:40 PM:
I totally agree and share the exact same concerns that Osi expressed in his first post in this thread.
My own (unpopular) view is as long as collectors overly "romanticize" their 30-year-plus projectors, we are essentially contributing to the eventual death of our hobby. No matter how well cared for, these old projectors are going to eventually give up the ghost. I'd like to enjoy our hobby well into my old age, but I'm concerned that the obsession to keep these old projectors running at all costs has overshadowed any efforts to introduce new equipment to the marketplace.
I've recently acquired another "old" projector as a back-up, but I fully realize that I'm just replacing one old projector with another old projector. I think we collectors should focus more on the betterment of our hobby rather than obsessing with the mechanics of keeping old projectors running.
Just my humble opinion. . .
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on October 14, 2007, 10:15 PM:
I don't actually see there being a new super-8 projector (or camera) ever again. Back in the day, the cost of tooling up production for one of these was covered by runs of many tens of thousand units. Volume these days couldn't run higher than hundreds, and the prices would be steep.
However, the opportunity could be there to take in a commonly available old projector and rebuild in on a production line basis replacing all the known trouble parts with new items.
Electronic systems could be upgraded and modernised since electronic design and PCB fab and stuffing is not really that bad, even at low volume. (I'm picturing an Elmo projector with a USB port right now!)
My example for this is Movie Stuff's line of Telecine units. Each of them is built around a rebuilt GAF dual-8 projector. I've heard they sell very well.
My example to the opposite is the new Fumeo projector CHC tried to bring out a few years ago. At the stated price there simply wasn't the business to make it a go.
Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on October 15, 2007, 03:20 AM:
Osi.
If its any consolation my Pathe 9.5mm projector was made in the 20’s, myself and other users in the past of said machine have kept it going to-date and it still runs both regular 9.5 films along with notched type. Yes it has had repairs and conversions over the years including QI lamp upgrade and new shutter blade, but it’s still going strong. Similarly my 9.5mm Pathe Vox sound projector is still projecting film well and was made in 1938. Converted and upgrade to modern lighting and sound these are good machines. I think the key to a long life for any machine is firstly how many owners it has had and who has tried to gorilla them or not. Perhaps comparing 8mm projectors to vintage 9-5 machines is a good comparison as clearly 9-5 projectors are simple in design and construction. My own feeling is that the downfall of 8mm projection equipment is that the started making them with many bells and whistles and the finest example is perhaps the GS1200 which is completely overloaded with flash gimmickry, after all, it is just for projecting film isn’t it? Any self respecting film maker would not construct a soundtrack on such a machine but use a multitrack to build sound with at that time which is indeed what I used to do on the Fostex.
I feel you have a good point and my own feeling is that it may well be the simply designed machines such as the Sankyo 702 or even the basic Chinon projectors which may have the last laugh. Don’t get me wrong, I love my GS1200, 800 and even my Sankyo Stereo 800, but being so tarted up with gadgetry in the long run I am sure they will not stand the test of time.
Another good comparison is with 35mm projectors perhaps. Forget the larger film gauge just look at the simplicity of the mechanism and design. My own 35mm Philips is very basic and has a simple design for guaranteed longevity. It projects and also reads a sound track, that’s it.
On another tack, one thing which does amaze me is the amount of cine enthusiasts who spout endlessly about film but hardy ever show the blinkin stuff let along buy a new film! Even some of my mates who read this forum take some pushing to give a film show one evening. I expect this has much to do with living a busy life, or is it just basically bad time management? Sadly we have a situation now where some so called cine dealers are now ditching 8mm on ebay as quickly as possible, so much for the love they had for 8mm eigh. Personally I love film and the experience of playing cine and sincerely have done so since the early 70’s. Ill try to keep my machines going as long as possible but do feel it will be the simpler designed machines that will last the longest…
I hang onto one thing which always inspires me to give a show. I showed a 9.5mm sound film to a group of some 40 Children some time ago and after watching it they asked to see it again. Some of them were also given the chance to have a go of the projector. This is the real pleasure of the hobby for me, to entertain.
Happy film show day.
Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on October 16, 2007, 07:46 AM:
Lee, I thought the statement "where some so called cine dealers are now ditching 8mm on ebay as quickly as possible" was a bit harsh.
These dealers have been selling on eBay for years. Selling on eBay is no different to putting out a list or having a table at conventions like you did.
It doesnt mean that they are pulling out cine.
I believe that you were selling super8 and 16mm at the last convention you attended but it didnt mean you were pulling out from the hobby.
I sold a lot of my films recently because I needed the cash but I'm not leaving the hobby. The truth of the matter for me these days is that I spend more time repairing the Elmos that I just dont get the time to play cinemas.
Kev.
Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on October 16, 2007, 08:12 AM:
Hello young fella.
My little comment with regard to a dealer was based on fact and this particular person is certainly throwing in the 8mm towel which is a great shame.
Yes I was manning a stall at Farnworth, but it was for someone else who was unable to stand all day at the stall he had booked so I was helping out a friend and supporting the event which otherwise would have been one less dealer table. We made the trip to collect the lad’s films & equipment, did the day at Farnworth and then returned his items not sold. Always a pleasure to help someone in the hobby who loves it as much as I do.
Sorry to hear you don’t see many film shows due to repairing Elmo’s. Tell all your customers to buy a Chinon instead. EE.
Take care my friend and the very best of health to you.
Happy Elmo day!
Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on October 16, 2007, 04:46 PM:
So we were talking about ONE dealer. I know the dealer you are talking of and he's NOT coming out of cine hence my reply to you.
BTW I think I'm a lot older than you Young Man
Kev.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 16, 2007, 06:19 PM:
I must be a young pup at 42. Hee hee, lots of years of collecting ahead!
Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on October 16, 2007, 07:33 PM:
I have to say that I have had my share of bad projectors in the past. The first one was a Chinon SP300. Oh god how i hated that machine. It ate so many of my films. Hated it!
Then I had an Elmo GS1200.. the original one from 1985. The only problem it has was the left channel went out but in 1985..I sent it directly to Elmo and they fixed it under warranty.
Than a string of bad GS1200's. One very good Xenon machine. One so so. And one that use to run in a porn theatre and was noisy, scratched films..ugh.
But now I have a Mint GS that I got from a forum member here. Quiet as can be. A Beaulieu 708 Stereo...no problem since the $700 overhaul (new motor, new claw, etc.) and now a mint Eumig S940. I figure..one of those machines is going to outlast me! I know it!
Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on October 17, 2007, 05:05 AM:
Kevin. Your picture does not do you justice matey..
Please do not misinterpret my comments above. This I understand to be a Forum about 8mm and we have free speech I think still going strong. My observations are valid and I certainly don’t want to get drawn into some sort of slanging match as to who is right as I have nothing to prove. Let’s hope some sort of freedom continues on an open forum rather than your wrists will be slapped if you say something we don’t like.
Osi. I am 46 so already I am felling old. That blasted GS1200 is starting to get heavy lifting on and off the stand! Why does Kevin only look 30 in that picture?
Happy 8mm day!
Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on October 17, 2007, 08:20 AM:
Great points being made in this thread. Yes...I imagine machines can be kept running indefinitly....look at the 9.5 machines....BUT ...what good will it do, if ....as in the case of 9.5..there is no new product to buy...simply the old stuff sold and resold...shown and reshown...?
The noble attempt a few years back to produce a new super 8 machine met with almost total rejection by collectors. Cost too high. We had our chance for new equipment and didnt' support it. Now Derann and Classic and some others are valiently trying to keep pumping out product.....but if we don't support them...don't bite the financial bullet and buy the films, we are digging our own Super 8 graves....or at least sentencing ourselves to cine purgatory.....where there are only old resold , reshown prints being shuffled off between fewer and fewer collectors. Just my two cents ....probably not worth that much.
Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on October 17, 2007, 10:07 AM:
Gary.. You are 100% right and a very well balanced mail. Fortunately I was in a position to buy some new feature 8mm prints from Derann this year which I collected at a Open Day, another good reason for making the effort to go along. The image quality is superb and I am very pleased with the service as well.
You are right to mention 9.5mm as an example. When I started with 9-5 it took me many years to locate a sound projector and sound films. In more recent years more classic machines have become available whereas in years past you stood no chance whatever the money. Only last week I was lucky enough to get hold of the 9-5 versions of Napoleon which as those old 9-5 hands will know is the gold dust, you stand no chance of ever getting them prints.
With 8mm prints bobbed from one person to another for lets say 20 years as an example it inevitable there will be fewer collectors but with booming collections. 9.5 has gone just this way over recent years and attending the Harpenden event last year a had tea with a group of folk who delighted in telling us what rare films they had obtained over the last 15 years or so.
In the oh mid 90’s I made the mistake of parting with much of my film collection having obtained a very expensive video projector and kept all but my favourite cine films. This was a major mistake on my part as some of the titles have never been replaced since, although I was very pleased dear Derek from Derann came and collected the lot at a fair price so I knew many collectors would benefit in the long run. What we do need to do is buy more new films and I made a pact with myself to buy something new each year just to do my little bit to keep the hobby I love so much going. You are right, we need to support the dealers who supply new prints for us and even if some are only able to buy a trailer its good we can all do our bit for the hobby we say we love so much.
The print I purchased from Classic Home Cinema early this year was first class and matched that from Derann Film Services who are know for both quality and service so the quality of product is still there. Lets hope everyone who quotes enthusiasm can find a few quid and place an order or two especially as we are coming up to Christmas an ideal time for a film show.
With the superb Ealing bash nearly upon us and Blackpool coming up here in the UK there is no time better than now to look at the new Super 8 items available from dealers here in the UK. I cant speak for other parts of the world be we are so lucky to have good events here and fresh films available.
That’s me off my orange box and looking forward to watching some 8mm tonight very much.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 17, 2007, 10:23 AM:
On my part, i must honestly say that i rarely buy new Super 8mm product, except for the odd short here and there. It's not that i wouldn't wish to, it's just that I'm not seeing things I'd lay a couple hundred down on. End of Day's, for instance, was a film I'd watch once, but forget the next day, so I wouldn't put 150.00 dollars out there just to support the hobby.
I admit though, it would be hard to fit my requirements, (for instance, I'd love to have a super 8 copy of that British feature from 1989, "Slipstream", I bet I'm the only person who would request THAT!)
Gary's words about the shrinking hobby were good, but quite frankly, I'm finding new (used) prints all the time, (especially on optical sound super 8mm features. I just bought "Point Blank" 1967, Lee marvin!!), and so I doubt that I'll run out of options to buy from out there for years.
Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on October 17, 2007, 10:37 AM:
30 in my pic I wish ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
That pic is getting on a bit now but is still only about 7 yrs old. Lee I'm 53 ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Free speech is still allowed on the forum and the only time I really go to town (slapping wrists) is if it gets rude or abusive. I am also one for having the facts straight.
Anyway thats enough on that subject.
I do agree with Gary....its our support that the dealers need to help keep the hobby going. Waht I would say though is that if you look at the lists and the films for sale on eBay it tends to be the same titles all the time.
It seems that you can only shift titles if there was only a small number of prints of a particular title.
Maybe we still need some new stuff above trailers to help give the sales a kick start if thats what they need.
There are still loads of T&J's, Disney and Walton shorts in circulation and for the collectors left there are probably more than there are collectors..if that makes sense.
Kev.
Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on October 18, 2007, 06:46 AM:
All of the enthusiasts in this hobby today are still under the shadow of the mass medium it was in the 1970's. There are large amounts of used film and equipment in the market. There is still enough equipment in particular in reasonable condition so as not to warrant new gear.
The telecine gear that is remanufactured sells well as there was very little of this gear around in the 1970's and now demand outstrips supply of the used units, hence new ones. We will need to move forward many years yet until the same applies with projectors.
The quality projectors hold their prices, but the run of the mill Chinons, Sankyo's etc can be had in great order for around $150 - $200.
Nothing wrong with ebay either, it has brought in many new collectors and rekindled the interest of former collectors who lay dormant. I would almost always buy when I received a catalogue from the local Eight Millimeter Film Centre, when they stopped being sent, I stopped buying. Ebay comes along and my collection has doubled!
I dig out an old catalogue, find a film that is of interest and search until I find it. I have bought new films too and just as importantly subscribe to Small Format.
David
Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on October 19, 2007, 06:45 AM:
I believe the super 8 hobby will be around for a long time.
I do understand the frustration about how hard it is to find a high-end projector in excellent condition. And this is a problem. Especially for new enthusiests. Its very easy to give up after having bad luck with a few projectors. But most of the veteran super 8 hobbiests (like me) will go the extra mile to keep our projectors running smoothly.
Hopefully, we will someday see a new super 8 projector made. And hopefully it will be under $2,000 dollars.
James
Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on October 19, 2007, 07:29 AM:
Everyones banging on about the longevity of Super8 etc.and even 9.5mm.
How about regular8- I have several machines in this format,sound and silent and they are still going strong and without too much fuss with fancy electronics to make them operate.Why,you can even fix them from old tin cans if needs must
What I can say is that my ageing Super8 ST1200HD mag/opt still is plodding along niceley.Just a complete change of rubber drive wheels and new sets of belts.
Personally though,looking through all these equally valid mails
(even the ones knocking Kens piccy ) my prefernce is towards the old Regular8 that is built like brick ****houses!
Oh! Yes-to all you young (ish) correspondants-I am sixty one
Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2