8mm Forum: Best regular 8mm projector

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Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on December 06, 2007, 08:27 PM:

What do you consider the best regular 8mm silent projector? Dual 8 projectors do not count. I am interested in one that takes into account image brightness, sharpness (one where good zoom lenses are available), steady image, ease of cleaning the film path, film safety (not prone to scratches, sprocket damage, film breaks, etc.), and variable speed control for telecine transfer. I have had a Eumig Dual 8 for years, but it doesn't always run regular 8mm that well -- problem is the claw stays in the same position for Super 8 and regular 8.

I definitely want it for telecine, but want one good enough to project a large image (say 4'x4') for general viewing. Also, while I am interested to know what people feel is the best of the best, I would like to know one I can find fairly easily without waiting years or paying the equivalent of ELMO GS-1200 prices. I see tons of Bell & Howells on eBay all the time, but there are so many different models.

Thanks.

Posted by Patrick Walsh (Member # 637) on December 06, 2007, 08:38 PM:

I like the Bell and Howell 606 H std 8mm machine, it is as old as the hills buts it puts out a good image and is steady as a rock!, only drawback is the lamps are getting harder to get for it.
Patrick [Smile]

Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on December 07, 2007, 07:17 AM:

Yes,I'll back our NZ contributor up-its a brilliant machine.Mines already to have a small halogen (12v 100w) lamp installed as I am on my last A1/47 BH28.Alle the new base and connector are ready plus the transformer.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 07, 2007, 01:16 PM:

My choice would be the Bolex 18-5. A superb little projector, built to legendary Bolex quality, really really quiet running, extremely kind to film, and a bright very sharp picture with the Bolex HiFi lens.

[ December 07, 2007, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Paul Adsett ]

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on December 08, 2007, 03:43 PM:

Interesting Bolex projector. Does it take 400 foot reels? Curious as to the bulb type and lens specs.

Anyone have a pic of the Bell and Howell 606 H?

Thanks

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on December 08, 2007, 04:42 PM:

Hi Tony,

My vote, or votes, go to the Elmo E-80 or the Elmo F-80. I have both. (I also have an Ampro Futurist 8; an equally good machine, but it only has a fixed speed of 16fps). The F-80 is the somewhat better machine, for several reasons. Please read my reviews on these projectors. They both have superb engineering with regard to film path, ease of cleaning etc. etc.

They both have variable speed, and the F-80 comes with a zoom lens as opposed to a prime lens for the E-80. They both appear from time to time on eBay, and won't cost you the earth. Both run virtually silently and both accept 400ft spools.

The only thing 'moderns' may not like is the 115volt, 750watt lamp for each, but for my money they're the 'bees knees'. Their optics rival many of the later models. These lamps are extremely readily available and are also reasonably priced.

Good luck!

Posted by Simon McConway (Member # 219) on December 08, 2007, 05:29 PM:

Yes, I agree, the Elmo E80 is the best. The projector that got me started! As for the lamp, I think it adds to the machine! There's nothing like the smell of a hot lamp!

[ December 09, 2007, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Simon McConway ]

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on December 09, 2007, 10:05 AM:

There is one here that nobody bought -- price was reasonable, too.

ELMO F 80

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on December 09, 2007, 10:32 AM:

Tony,

Contact the seller to see if it is still available. If it is, go for it. You won't be disappointed! That's all I can say. I almost went for it myself, but I already have 9 projectors of various types, so couldn't really justify it. It was a very close thing, though!

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 09, 2007, 11:46 AM:

Tony,
The Bolex 18-5 does take 400ft reels. The bulbs are 8volt 50 watt CXR or CXL, still available. You should be able to pick up an 18-5 in mint condition for less than $100.00, there are lots of them on ebay. You may have to replace the rubber drive belts if they have perished. Just use an appropriate sized rubber 0- ring and it will last forever.

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on December 09, 2007, 01:28 PM:

Thanks to all for the recommendations. My search aside, it is an interesting thread. Curious to know what other people like.

Paul, do you get a nice bright pic with a 50 watt bulb?

David, what's the situation with replaceable parts for the Elmo? Are the belts for that model easy to get? Are there any rubber rollers that you can't replace? It sure looks like it is built like a tank!

What do people think about some of the "later" Bell & Howells? By later I mean 1960's and 70's!

Thanks.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 09, 2007, 01:50 PM:

The 18-5 will give a nice bright picture up to about a 48 ins silver screen or 36 ins matt white screen. You will never scratch your films on this machine, something that I do not feel about some of the Bell and Howell machines. But I do agree with Patrick - the Bell and Howell 606H (REGENT here in the USA) is a superb projector.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on December 09, 2007, 07:27 PM:

I once owned a Keystone K-104 that was a beauty. Very gentle on film and it even came with a nice daylight viewer. I once saw it on Ebay, but the seller was a real piece of "doo-doo" so the sale never went through (he never got a bid so I offered him what I felt was a fair price and he became very hostile). I'm always looking for it to pop up again. Gee, how I loved that machine. Years ago I donated it to a private school for handicapped children. I don't regret giving it to the school (which unfortunately doesn't exist anymore) - I just wish today I could get another one. A Good Solid machine - never gave me an ouce of trouble.

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on December 09, 2007, 07:56 PM:

A 606 H is a Regent? Like this one: B&H Regent

Believe it or not, I have one of these! My father-in-law gave it to me over 10 years ago and he hadn't used it in ages before that. I tinkered with it at the time and put it away. Last week I took it apart and lubed it. Several problems:

- It is noisy
- The rubber wheel that propels the shutter is dried out and out-of-shape...it is not circular...more like a circle with a dent in it.
- When I run a film, the take-up reel has too much tension and immediately eliminates the lower loop. When I took it apart, I loosened the screw holding the spindle. Problem is that now the take-up reel sometimes stops turning on its own. How do you adjust it properly?
- When I engage the gate, it doesn't put enough pressure on the film, making the projected image unsteady. If I apply pressure with my finger, I get a steady image.
- The variable speed control does not do anything. I am not quite sure how it is supposed to work -- it wasn't obvious when I opened up the machine.
- Believe it or not, the bulb still works -- it is probably 40 years old itself. But the projected image isn't too bright. It has a Proval f1.6 B&H lens.

Patrick, Barry,

If this is the machine you are talking about, sounds like it is worth the time to make it right. Any suggestions on the fix?
How do you convert it to use a modern halogen lamp?

Thanks

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on December 10, 2007, 01:49 AM:

Hi Tony,

Belts are available on the internet. There are no rubber or plastic rollers or guides on either the E-80 or the F-80. The film path is polished chrome and stainless steel. Threading couldn't be simpler - around the feed sprocket, through the gate, around the take-up sprocket and onto the take-up spool! Extremely kind to film, and yes, they are built like tanks, but with a high degree of precision engineering.

Naturally we all speak as we find, and each of our recommendations is obviously based on our own personal experiences. We all love the machines that we are suggesting to you, but of course, at the end of the day, the decision can only be yours.

Let us know how you get on.

Good luck,

Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on December 10, 2007, 07:40 AM:

Tony: Yes thats the machine,conversion to halaogen is relativly easy.Ypu must keep an old blown lamp for the base.
Remove all traces of glass and filament.fabricate an upright for the lamp of the correct height so that the capsule lamp used has its filament squarely in the centre of light path.
Use copper tube or very hard plastic for this purpose.Secure new ceramic lamp holder with epoxy resin (the lamp holder will not pass much heat as its insulated ceramic)
Use plaster to set the ectended base to original lamp base and let it set thoroughly.
Get tranformer suitable for your supply and mount this externally or if small enough internally in the projector base.
Wire new lampbase to lamp switch (terminate and insulate oldf lamp wiring)
Connect transformer to existing power supply and there you are.
Much improved light output and VERY VERY much cooler in operation!
As for the drive problem one would have to think about that to get it smooth [Confused]

Otherwise an brilliant machine to tinker with.

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on December 10, 2007, 07:49 PM:

Barry,

Thanks, but some questions.

Not quite sure if I need an old blown lamp of the original or the new halogen type. Also, not quite sure why I need this if I am to use copper tubing.

I actually got the B&H Regent working now. For the first time I have been able to project a film. I tightened the screw on the take-up spindle and for most of a 400 foot reel it spins. Toward the end it needs some help. I tinkered with the pressure pad on the gate and now the image projects very steady -- not perfect, but as good as I have even seen in regular 8mm (3.5 foot wide projected image.) I cleaned the condenser lens, and the image brightness is a little better. I suppose with a faster lens than a f1.6 I would do even better. Image is very sharp, though.

Speed control still doesn't do anything, though, and machine is very noisy. But it seems to run at a constant speed despite the looks of the rubber wheel which drives the shutter.

Anyway, I guess I had a great projector right under my nose, but didn't know it. With a little more work it may become a workhorse for me.

I still may try an Elmo F-80 eventually, though.

Many thanks.

[ December 11, 2007, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Tony Stucchio ]

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on December 10, 2007, 09:30 PM:

Paul mentioned the Bolexes, so how about the M8? In addition to being quite bright and having nice glass, it is, in terms of threading and handling, very easy to live with. Variable speed. It is also very pretty-looking.

The only drawback is that it is unapologetically noisy; it sounds like a giant hairdryer past 18f/p/s. Yet, with that, it is hard not to fall in love with once you have used it. Built to last at least a couple of lifetimes.

Claus.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on December 11, 2007, 12:38 AM:

For me it is the Bolex 18 - 5 or the Bell and Howell 266 EX with the Filmovara steel zoom lens.

Both are rock solid and high quality steel machines and give about the same screen brightness when side by side.

There are many versions of the 266 from the early - mid 1960's but the light grey models are better than the black crinkle finish like the 256 etc.

Cheap and reliable either would be my recommendation. Want to be really sold on them? Buy an old Saturday Evening Post or National Geographic magazine and drool over the ads for these fine projectors. In fact there was hardly a National Geographic produced from the early 1960's to the mid 1970's that does not contain a film equipment ad.

David

Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on December 11, 2007, 12:51 PM:

Tony: I used an old blown lamp and used the base for cosmetic reasons but if you come up with a better idea then by all means persue it.Personally I have no acess to decent tools and went with what I had!! As for the copper tubing,it (the old base) makes a firm and rock solid base to adhere/fasten the new capsule lamp to.
I might point out that you utilise the existing reflector in the lamphouse too as it focusses properly to the gate.
Using the tiny capsule lamp (without built on reflectors) give you room to work.These lamps are the ones as fitted to the Eumig P8 from about 1965 onwards. [Smile]

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on December 11, 2007, 07:42 PM:

Barry,

Did you still keep the condenser lens in place?

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on December 12, 2007, 02:56 AM:

Tony
These are very popular here in the UK.

Link: www.bolexcollector.com/projectors/m8r.html

Happy hunting

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on December 12, 2007, 04:50 AM:

Tony,

That same Elmo F-80 is re-listed on eBay. Here is the link:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Elmo-Model-F-80-Variable-Speed-8mm-Projector_W0QQitemZ360003922206QQihZ023QQcategoryZ152385QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thought you ought to know.

By-the-way, both the E-80 and the F-80 have dimmer controls for the room lights!!

Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on December 12, 2007, 07:23 AM:

Sorry Tony.yes,the codenser lens is kept in place as it really does focus the light beam into place.
Barry.

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on December 12, 2007, 05:15 PM:

Thanks, Barry.

Now, back to the Bolex. It seems that there are two distinct 18-5 versions. I assume the better one is the manual threader. But it can only project at either 18 fps or 5fps? Nothing greater or in-between?

Thanks

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 12, 2007, 05:25 PM:

That's right Tony, only two speeds, 18fps or flickerless 5fps. I have the manual threader and I would not let the manual threading deter you. It is so easy to thread up - 15 seconds tops, and manual threading is a lot kinder to your films than auto threading.

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on December 12, 2007, 06:30 PM:

Paul,

Yes, I prefer manual threading as well. Other than the film guides, there do not seem to be any other markings to indicate it is a different model.

This looks like it would be perfect, except to transfer to video I need more than 5fps -- unless there is some software to speed it up later.

Thanks,
Tony

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on December 17, 2007, 03:32 PM:

Hello All,

I am still deciding whether or not to try a new projector or stick with my old ones. Prices seem to be going through the roof on eBay lately.

The following makes no sense, unless I am missing something:
B&H

The lens does look good -- I suspect a zoom. But without any specs cannot be sure of the lens speed.

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