8mm Forum: "Phantasm" digest inquiry...take a look please.

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Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on December 24, 2007, 06:16 PM:

Hi All,
As you know I purchased a few films from a collector and some were doubles. One of them was "Phantasm" 400ft.
I use to have this title myself and it was in a clamshell case with the plastic cover.
The one I sold looked like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180193947399&ssPageName=STRK:MESO:IT&ih=008

Now the buyer received it and emailed me this:

"This is NOT an authentic film. The cover is home-made from the poster! I want to return this bootleg item."

So my question is this:
Bootleg? I have never heard of someone going through the pain of making a bootleg of this title and also I checked the print before sale and It looked exactly like my copy. Some fade in the dark scenes but the day scenes and mausoleum scenes looked good.
What do you gents think?

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on December 24, 2007, 08:31 PM:

Hi well I`d guess that possibly an earlier owner has cut open the clamshell cover, removed and put the paper insert in to the 400` hard case that looks a bit like many of the later waltons came in from what I can see or a similar style case to those.
So its not exactly as released possibly but the artwork etc looks OK and it is as shown in the auction. Its likely the original thinnish paper so you can see why they might think that its not kosher. I suppose it went quite high.
But I think also sometimes odd copies did go out in hybrid or not usual cases as well from time to time of odd films, but not so often, ones like this they are usually done by owners afterwards, the clamshell edges and corners maybe broke up/went like they do if it was origionally in that.
You could try explaining that if you think its right and offer a $10 refund or something.
Best Mark.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on December 25, 2007, 02:26 AM:

Alan

The picture of the film case reveals that it was obviously made up from the DVD cover. The buyer should have spotted this and e-mailed you before purchase if there was any doubt.

However, you may wish to keep your 100% feedback and offer a small refund to possibly avoid receiving a negative feedback.

Maurice

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on December 25, 2007, 05:25 AM:

I'd concur with Mark here. The artwork seems to be made out of clips from the original clamshell box graphics.
If the guy's so anal about it, offer a refund on the box as the print is obviously legit.

Experience with my Ebay store has taught me that item descriptions need to be as accurate and complete as possible if you want to keep your cool. Be prepared that some people just won't read the description, or they will read it in diagonal (as we say here).

I just sold a 2008 calendar that looked like an old LP cover. The item description was very specific : "2008 calendar nicely printed to look and feel like an old LP cover" (I was even mentioning actual scratches and dogears on some of the pages, just so you how detailed the description was). Well, believe it or not, the buyer complained and left me a neutral feedback because the record wasn't included. Nowhere in the description could you find any mention of physical music (LP, CD...) included in the sales.

Never underestimate the stupidity of people...

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on December 25, 2007, 08:43 AM:

Thanks guys. I emailed the buyer and told him that the film is not a bootleg but the cover may not be original. If he is unhappy I will take back the item, give him a refund and relist the item.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 25, 2007, 11:24 AM:

Ebay can be a reel pain when listing things. I try to be as accurate as I can. So far I haven't had anybody come back complaining, but sooner or later I will.

The thing I fear for you is that this moron will play it, leave an enormous green scratch on the film, and then your stuck with a print you can't sell, (unless, of course, you mention the big green scratch!).

Did this guy complain that this isn't the full film? I've seen people complain when buying Super8, not knowing that they're buying Super 8, and complaining that they only got a portion of the film.

It's strange to think of, but there ARE quite a few people out there that live in a video or DVD world, and have reel idea as to what film is. (!!??!!). They are mystified when they actually see film, picture after picture, frame by frame.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on December 25, 2007, 09:59 PM:

No matter how careful you are Alan these things can happen on ebay. If you can look at an item for sale and ask the owner questions on the spot, it cn be mostly averted, but with ebay it is difficult to do on ebay.

I have almost 400 positive feedbacks, but have had to refund several items no questions asked even though I felt in each instance the buyer was unrealistic as they did not read or understand the description correctly. None of the items have been film.

I did once buy a film described as good. It was scratched and had numerous splices. The seller said, well it runs doesn't it? I have learnt to always ask plenty of questions and always encourage my buyers to do the same.

David

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on December 26, 2007, 04:28 AM:

I've scanned the original Phantasm cover for 'smallformat' previously. Would you like me to send you that so you can just forward it onto him so he can print it out and make up his own genuine box label?

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on December 26, 2007, 08:13 AM:

I`ve just had a bit of ebay fun, I sold something earlier in the month for £8.75, sent it off and never hard anything again for 8 days or so after emailing him it had been sent.
Next thing I got an email from Paypal telling me the buyer had opened a dispute against me for non reciept of item. I couldn`t believe it. He`d not contacted me via email or message etc and Have to say I felt a bit dischuffed as a mark against my name in a sense or if I have to use the dispute thing myself its still there showing as a question mark over me??
Anyway I replied I felt it would have been better to have let me know he didn`t recive it first before opening a dispue as that is a last resort and suggests dishonesty or an serious unwillingness on the sellers part to help etc.
I refunded him his money straight away and asked him to contact paypal to ask them to remove it as even when closed its still classed as a dispute opened against you.
Anyway an hour or so later he`d emailed to say a neighbour who lives on a close with the same name of and attached to his same name road had brought it round and then said it happens a lot because of that!!!!!!!!
No apology etc of course but he did repay the paypal straight away but I wasn`t even bothered about that. If he`d have contacted me I`d have refunded straight away anyway and sorted it from here. Also Christmas post etc !!!!
Well these things happen etc.
Best Mark.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on December 27, 2007, 07:36 PM:

I'd say the screenshot indicates that the print has considerably less fade than the average Derann release from that time! Must admit that I can be fussy about getting original boxes, but the photo on the listing makes it very clear what the buyer would be getting.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on December 29, 2007, 01:06 AM:

I actually have the original box art from the clamshell. I bought mine new in the 80's!
This one is a double. Thanks though for the offer Mr. Clancy!

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