8mm Forum: CINE FILM COPYRIGHT QUERY

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Posted by Den Brown (Member # 819) on April 25, 2008, 03:14 AM:

Do the original copyright restrictions for home viewing only still apply today to old documentary fims from companies like Castle, Fletcher Films, , Universal 8, Walton, I.E. International? Or are these companies defunct and their films now in the public domain? Thanks.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on April 25, 2008, 03:47 AM:

I believe copyright exists on motion pictures for 75 years. In cases where companies like Castle made their own documentaries these could now be public domain if the parent company has gone out of business. As Universal are still very much alive then you could still be had up in court for copyright infringement on the Castle releases less than 75 years old. Although I doubt very much that anyone would bother too much unless there was a very blatant infringement.

Posted by Jim Carlile (Member # 812) on April 25, 2008, 04:56 AM:

It depends upon the country.

In the U.S., if the film is older, like before the very early 60s, it needed to be renewed. If it wasn't, it's in the public domain. I've forgotten the exact date that this applies to, don't quote me, but later works were automatically entitled to the extension. If the doc is obscure and from the 30s or 40s, it's probably in PD-- you can check the orginal copyright date, then look up the Copyright Office Renewal records online for the specific year that it needed to be renewed, to see if it was.

If it wasn't (and they rarely were) it's free and clear!

Also, before the late 70s, the U.S. Copyright Office had a two-copy deposit requirement that went hand-in-hand with mandatory registration. If the film was never deposited with them, the copyright is void. You can see if they have the film copies by checking the Library of Congress holdings online.

Interesting story: 30s, 40s and some 50s SMPE JOURNALS (later SMPTE) were never renewed when they came up. They are now online for free at the Internet Archive. Lots of good film-production reading. In fact, many, many film-related journals and books are actually in PD now, though the original publishers-- if still around-- don't want you to know about this... This also applies to the more obscure older films.....

http://www.archive.org/details/feature_films

Posted by Joerg Polzfusz (Member # 602) on April 25, 2008, 05:15 AM:

Hi,

this is a very confusing and complex topic. E.g. anything that has been made in Germany or the UK is copyrighted up to 70 years after the originator's death. But I can't tell who's originator when it comes to films: the producer? the director? the main cameraman? the cutter? ... ?
In any case: Even if the originator already died in 50s or 60s, the film still wouldn't be public domain by now!

According to this list everything made in the USA before 1923 is now public domain:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries'_copyright_length
As the copyrights for documentaries published 1923-1963 most likely haven't been renewed, they're also most likely public domain by now. But checking the "not renewed"-status would cost some dollars and would take some time.
Even worse: Even if a film is already public domain in the USA, the European release might still be copyrighted. Hence you might still run into troubles when copying or distributing such a film in Europe [Frown]

And as John has already pointed out: Castle Films got taken over by Universal Pictures and renamed to Universal 8 later on. And even though "Universal 8" has been defunct, you can be sure that they've transferred all rights to Universal Pictures - a company that is still alive.
Another problem: Even when a film says "comeCorp presents a comeCorp-production", this "comeCorp" (Fletcher, Walton, ...) might only be the exclusive distributor, but doesn't have to be the owner/holder of the copyright. Checking this might become complicated - especially when the "comeCorp" doesn't exist any more.

Just my two cents,
Jörg

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