8mm Forum: Best Film Cleaner to radicate tram lines

This is topic Best Film Cleaner to radicate tram lines in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on June 10, 2008, 05:11 AM:

Hi thought I’d pass this across.

I have been told that the likes of WD40 work as a good measure of cleaning up old films especially Technicolor prints. Does anyone know what exactly is the best way of reducing tramlines, which come and go? I have been told if it is a base scratch then more chances are you can treat these.

Best.

Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on June 10, 2008, 04:36 PM:

WD40 will harm your prints.

Use FilmGuard for cleaning and lubricating.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on June 10, 2008, 04:46 PM:

It will also fry your brains, the best lines wise, and as it happens, the least whiffy is FILMGAURD.
Best Mark.

Posted by Adam Wilkins (Member # 1172) on June 10, 2008, 08:04 PM:

Is Filmguard suitable for both Acetate and Polyester? silent/sound film?

Posted by Brian Hendel (Member # 61) on June 10, 2008, 08:42 PM:

I tried FILMGUARD for the first time this past weekend and was amazed at how well it got rid of superficial surface lines. It made them disappear more effectively that FILM RENEW (which I had been using). I highly recommend it. The odor is not overpowering either. Of course there's nothing you can do about the nasty, deep, green emulsion lines -- but fo the light lines it's a miracle worker...

Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on June 10, 2008, 11:20 PM:

FilmRenew is not designed for 'wet-gate' projection like FilmGuard.

I use both cleaners for different purposes - both are useful - both are safe for use on acetate or polyester stocks.

I use FilmRenew for removing tape residue and other debris from film by hand and for soaking brittle film to restore plasticity. FilmRenew evaporates and will not remain on the film ( other than the wax it contains )

I use FilmGuard to lubricate prints and for wetgate projection. To apply by hand, I spray the reel sides with FilmGuard; place the film on rewinds; Then use a cleaning cloth to clean the print and evenly distribute the FilmGuard. FilmGuard does not evaporate ( or it evaporates very slowly ) remaining on the print - which is how it helps hide base scratches during projection.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on June 11, 2008, 03:33 AM:

Roy, WD40 does not harm prints. I personally wouldn't use it on Super 8 but experiments have been done by members of the forum. Perhaps Craig Hamilton should update us on his reel of film soaked in WD40 for a year or so.

Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on June 11, 2008, 04:07 AM:

I havent any firsthand experience using WD40 on a print, I am echoing what I have read Brad Miller post on the subject, so you have more experience than me John.

From what I understand long term exposure will cause emulsion to bleed, however I believe Brad Miller may be the best qualified to provide a definitive answer.

Bear in mind, WD40 is not a lubricant by design - its a Water Displacement fluid.

WD40 @ wikipedia

I might add, when purchasing film I would wish to know if the print had been treated, and with which substance(s).

Posted by Craig Hamilton (Member # 258) on June 11, 2008, 04:18 AM:

Ahhh... the old WD40 experiment! A couple of years ago on the forum a discussion came up about film cleaning. This subject can open a can of worms as all collectors have their own chosen method and preferred product.

WD40 was mentioned as a cleaner as some collectors had used it in the past with good results. Some other collectors seemed to think that it would destroy their film stock. So the debate went on and on. WD40 is a water displacement product (hence WD) the formula was perfected on the 40th attempt (hence 40) this gives you a product name of WD40 (yes I know I'm sad) Anyway, I had a reel containing about 50ft of Jaws that was riddled with black tram lines, the colour and sound was good to begin with. I normally used this reel of film to do test runs on any projector that I was repairing or adjusting. This was my sacrificial film if anything went wrong.

To test the WD40 theory, I immersed the whole reel in a plastic tub and fully submerged it in the WD40. The film was removed after 24hrs and no damage was visible. The film was then put back in to the solution and left for just over 1 year. Why a year? simple, I forgot about it [Big Grin]

When I finally got round to removing it, I thought here we go, one tub of mush to dispose of. Wrong! after a couple of passes through the rewind arms to remove as much as possible I projected the film. Sound quality not affected at all. Picture quality showed no colour deterioration but a massive improvement visually as not a single line was visible. This print is still in use today.

In conclusion, I have used WD40 on other prints, but this time I used the product as you would any other film cleaner, on a cloth and rewind arms.

Film cleaning is a personal thing and some collectors do have their favorite product. My advise is to use what you are happy with. Filmgaurd is an excellent all round cleaner and lubricator, and is Brad Millers baby. If it's good enough for 35mm cinema prints, then it's good for 8mm.

So, stick with what you know and like. Or if you have some old film stock, try another product.

Craig

Posted by Simon McConway (Member # 219) on June 11, 2008, 04:22 AM:

Why experiment just to save yourself £6? Pointless. Use the proper cleaner designed for the purpose. This way, we won't risk ruining valuable film. If you are going to try WD40, why not try running your car on orange juice? Could save yourself money!

Posted by Keith Ashfield (Member # 741) on June 11, 2008, 04:22 AM:

Craig, you smooth talking devil! Is this the time to resurect the "Baby Oil" debate? [Wink]

Posted by Craig Hamilton (Member # 258) on June 11, 2008, 04:35 AM:

Simon, orange juice just does not deliver the performance we require [Big Grin]

We have at work been running a diesel engine on Vegetable oil for nearly two years now and believe me the bloody thing runs a treat. Some boffin even gave the vegetable oil a technical name ( Bio Fuel ) Yes, this new wonder fuel on the market is nothing more than refined cooking oil with additives.

Simon, for the sake of £6 it is worth trying other products. Derann sell a cleaner that is intended for cleaning film. Try it and you to will have a sacrificial film.

Keith, I do use baby oil for lubricating old stock, but it's not film [Big Grin]

Craig

Posted by Keith Ashfield (Member # 741) on June 11, 2008, 06:33 AM:

Craig, I trust your "better half" doesn't read this forum? If she does you're a very brave man. [Razz]

Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on June 11, 2008, 11:08 AM:

Craig, have you tried Vaseline? You put it on the outside door knob... it keeps the Children (or in some cases, grandchildren) out while you're using the baby oil......

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 11, 2008, 11:49 AM:

I'll have to remember that one martin, as we are expecting our first born in two and a half month's (YAY)

Yeh, I'll bet I'll be saying "YAY" after a year of diapers, spit up, bottles!

My only concern or those who would "wet project" a film right after cleaning something, wouldn't there be a chance of extremely hot projector and lamp causing a potential fire?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on June 11, 2008, 11:58 AM:

A year of diapers the man says!

Ours achieved full potty function at about 36 months!

-and he's considered to be very bright!

Bless you in your new adventure Osi, it's like nothing you will have ever encountered before.

For some reason the idea of twins never terrified me before I became a father...

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on June 11, 2008, 01:41 PM:

Kodak did testing on WD-40 years ago and found that although the initial impression was that it didn't damage the film, as time passed WD-40 leeched the dyes out of the image causing color bleed.

If you have some junk reel of something that you don't care about, hey why not? However anything that is important to you, that's taking an awful big risk since Kodak already did extensive testing on WD-40.

Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on June 11, 2008, 01:50 PM:

Thanks, Brad. I am in total agreement. My collection has cost a lot of money over the years. Using a product that is not meant for film and has been proven to damage film in the long run is unacceptable.

This topic evolved from WD40 to baby diapers! That kinda' says it all. [Big Grin]

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 11, 2008, 04:14 PM:

Your right this thread sorta shifted to Baby Oil etc which was far more interesting as we have thrashed the WD40 and Amourall Wipes to death in earlier topics.

Come on guys just click on the search button and put in WD40 that's what the search button is for [Wink]

BTW Cif Lemon Cream Cleaner hides the original scratches a treat and smells good too. Does wear the GS's guides a little quicker but you get an incredible increase in light through your film [Big Grin]

Kev.

Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on June 11, 2008, 05:04 PM:

I soaked a print of Bridget Bardot in strawberries and whip cream. [Big Grin]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 11, 2008, 07:19 PM:

Ooooh, did she object?

I was always partial to the young Barbera Carrera. She looked stunning in that dress in "Island of Dr. M"!

... and not bad in "Lone Wolf McQuade" all wet in dat water fight!

(Both optical sound super 8 prints).

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on June 12, 2008, 10:09 AM:

And the winner in the "Furthest Deviation From Original Topic" category is......

Doug

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