This is topic High powered ST1200HD!?! 200W!?!1500W!?! in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.
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Posted by James E. Stubbs (Member # 817) on August 11, 2008, 04:51 AM:
Since I've had my ST-1200HD, (first one was just an H. Couldn't resist an HD since it has stereo capabilites externally), I've wondered about putting the 200W bulb of the GS1200 into it. Anyone every actully tried/ done this sucessfully? Will the bulb just plug right in w/o modification? What about air flow/heat? I've noticed if I leave the side panel open during projection besides being a bit louder, there's significantly more airflow thorugh the lamphouse. Would this keep the bulb cool enough?
I read in issue #13 of S8 Today about Brett Kasmere's 1500watt ST-1200 used during the SOS event. How the heck did he do this? Were the ever actually made this way? A Xenon ST-1200?
Ideally I'd like to go the simplest rout of just putting a 200W bulb in place of the existing 150W. Any comments/ideas on the subject are much appriciated.
Cheers,
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on August 11, 2008, 06:04 AM:
Hi James well if you put in a xenophot with their extra 20% light it will be like 180 watt anyway.
Far better to then also add a nice xenovaron 1,1 lens and the light and pic will be superb and no tinkering on volatges or external power sources etc.
Best Mark.
Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 11, 2008, 06:21 AM:
James
Where are you going to get your extra voltage?
The ST-1200HD bulb is 15 volts, whereas the GS-1200 bulb is 24 volts.
Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on August 11, 2008, 06:47 AM:
These days it's difficult to get the genuine ESC 200W lamp which was designed for the super8 gate. The EJL 200W lamp which most people use in the GS is designed for the 16mm gate so some light is lost in the GS.
I think Mark is right it would be better to use the 150W Xenophot with its 20% extra light than to go to all the bother of using the 200W lamp with an external transformer especially if it's not the genuine ESC.
I think the other conversion you were talking about was a Xenon job with an external supply and extra fans for cooling.
It would be possible to go down that route by buying the parts required from Say Wittners in Germany and use an HTI lamp similar to the conversion John Clancy had done on his GS1200. Its always important to make sure the machine has got the required cooling otherwise the lamp and gate will suffer as well as your precious film.
Tom Photiou I think did a conversion on an ST1200 to allow a 2 blade shutter to be used.
Kev.
Posted by James E. Stubbs (Member # 817) on August 12, 2008, 08:01 PM:
Thanks for your comments. I didn't even know that there was a voltage difference between the lamps. It seems obvious the best bet is the xenophot lamp. Simple.... Where do I get one? Also I have an Elmo f1.3 zoom lens which is eating a litlle light. Obviously an f1.1 lens would be better. What's a decent lens that I can have for not a large amount of money? I'd love to change to a two bladed shutter, but I shoot a lot of film at 18 fps and it would flicker badly. My thought on that is reserve my ST180E for 18fps even though it's not as bright. Can I put a brighter bulb in my ST-180?
Thanks,
Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on August 13, 2008, 05:06 PM:
A 1.1 lens will certainly give you a significant increase so is well worth looking for.
I think my answer would be the same as above for any light conversion. First you have to arrange for an external power source and then again you must make sure you have good cooling for the extra light/heat. With the internal supply of 12V the max wattage lamp available is 100W.
At the end of the day to take an ST600/180 to say a 150W lamp I think would be a worthless exercise as it would be better to use an ST1200 with the already extra lumens but with the added advantage of the 1200ft spool capacity. A 1.1 or even 1.0 lens is the way forward with the 1200 series.
What I have done with my own ST600D M-O is to put a 2 blade shutter in the machine which really does make a difference. Couple this with the 100W Xenophot and f1.1 lens and you do get quite a good light output from it.
My ST600 can show a 4ft wide picture with good screen brightness with the curtains still open. That I think is good going but obviously I cant use it to show 18fps film because of the flicker. An alternative is to fit one of the adjustable 2/3 blade shutters that Wittners in Germany sell. This will then allow the machine to run at 18fps without the extra flicker.
Kev.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on August 13, 2008, 05:12 PM:
Hi James always use xenophot bulbs in the elmo 100 watt and 150 watt machines 231 and 232 bulbns respectively not just brighter but alittle whiter too, but do check when you buy them that the bulb is set nice and central in the in the fixer and therefore in the dead center of the reflector, makes a hec of a lot of difference if they are out a bit.
Best Mark.
http://cgi.ebay.com/EFP-X-64629-MR16-100W-MR-16-bulb-lamps-Stage-lighting_W0QQitemZ370076090770QQihZ024QQcategoryZ29944QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2 el1247QQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on August 13, 2008, 05:19 PM:
Thats a good price too ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Kev.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on August 13, 2008, 05:24 PM:
http://cgi.ebay.com/EFR-5-X-MR16-150W15V-EFR-64620-MR-16-bulb-lamp-lighting_W0QQitemZ140256613970QQihZ004QQcategoryZ29944QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118 Q2el1247
these appear to be long life but they also do cheaper but Id try this one as great value.
Best Mark.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 13, 2008, 11:07 PM:
Sorry for a silly question:
Is Xenon = Xenophot?
If it is two different things, then if Xenophot gives an extra 20% light then how much does Xenon give an extra light?
cheers,
Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 14, 2008, 03:00 AM:
A good source in the UK for all Xenophot lamps at reasonable prices is Bristol Cine Sales at Bernard Hunter Ltd. Ask for Andrew Nicholls.
Their website is www.aavon.com/bristolcine.html
I thoroughly recommend them. Andrew is always a mine of information and very helpful.
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 14, 2008, 10:16 AM:
Where can you buy Xenophots in the USA? Nobody here seems to list them.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on August 14, 2008, 10:43 AM:
I think the links should take you there paul.
Best Mark.
Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on August 14, 2008, 10:53 AM:
paul, Steve Osborne of Reel Image sells those xeno's. And just about anything else you'd need.
Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on August 14, 2008, 02:55 PM:
quote:
Is Xenon = Xenophot?
If it is two different things, then if Xenophot gives an extra 20% light then how much does Xenon give an extra light?
A Xenon lamp is a totally different item. It's a small arc enclosed in a special glass tube. When the arc is created it excites xenon gas to produce a bright white light. These lamps require very special power supplies that have to provide an extremely high voltage to create the spark and then a low dc voltage very stable at high amperage to run the lamp. This is the type of lamp used in local theatres (cinemas) through out the world.
The Xenophot lamp is of typical construction with special gasses and produces a brighter whiter light than a regular halogen bulb. It runs in the same place with same cooling and same power supply.
Xenon lamps and power supplies come in many ratings. Most are compared by wattage. In 16mm for example, the difference between a projector with a two blade shutter running a ELC (halogen type)lamp (250 watt) at 3200 degress kelvin and a machine with a 300 watt xenon lamp at 5400 degress kelvin is about six times as much light. There are many things to take into account such as screen gain, darkness of room, speed of projection lens (i.e. f/1.3 vs f/2.5), etc. But general lamp output is measured with an open gate, projector running, no film and the screen is read in foot lamberts. The standard illumination at the screen should be 16 ft/lamberts. This does not take into account screen gain but does screen size.
All in all a very engineering deep subject.
John
Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on August 14, 2008, 05:17 PM:
Am I right that you cant buy a xenophot for the GS (200W 24V). And if not why not? Surely the construction is much the same?
And for 16mm, I think you can get a xenophot 250W in a peanut bulb but not the reflector type. Is this also true?
Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 17, 2008, 11:20 AM:
Graham
The GS-1200 bulbs are ESC but I don't know if they are available in xenophot. My blue boxes just have "Fujilamp" on them.
Regarding the little 16mm lamp you refer to, the A1/223, xenophots are available @ £3.49. See my entry for 14 August.
A friend of mine used to buy these as they so cheap and cement them into the reflectors of "duff" A1/259 bulbs.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on August 17, 2008, 05:09 PM:
Just easier to buy the 259 surely as seem to last well enough, (yes you can get the 259 xenophot ones).
A good saving though I suppose.
Posted by James E. Stubbs (Member # 817) on August 26, 2008, 11:24 PM:
Well I've looked everywhere. A place in Atlanta, GA sells them if you buy 10. I've found a few on Amazon, but I'm uncertian which is the correct one. Is this it? Osram Sylvania EFR-5/X 64620 HLX Bulb.. Or this one? EFR 64634 HLX light bulb Osram
Or this one? Osram EFR-5 Lamp (54211) This is the page I found them on:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=osram+efr
Or this one...http://www.replacementlightbulbs.com/lampefr.html
I really want the Xenophot brigtness...
Let me know which is the correct xenophot.
james_e69 at comcast dot com
Cheers
Posted by Antoine Orsero (Member # 41) on August 27, 2008, 03:58 AM:
I thought BRISTOLCINE had closed!
I see it still works!
I bought a lot of equipment at home before closing!
Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 27, 2008, 05:04 AM:
Antoinne
There was many years ago in Bristol a firm called "Bristol Cine Services" who operated from a shop in Alma Vale Road, Clifton, Bristol. I am not sure when then eventually closed.
The "new" Bristol Cine goes under the name of Bernard Hunter Limited, but still uses "Bristol Cine."
James
I have just spoken with Andrew at Bristol Cine and he tells me that he ships all over the world. He also says that only OSRAM make xenophot lamps. The lamps shown on your Atlanta site say they are medical lamps and do not seem do be actually Osram. They show ribbing on the reflector which doesn't seem right.
Send Andrew Nichols an email at aavon dot com at aol dot com and I am sure he will help. If necessary he will accept PayPal.
Or, if you wish to use the Bristol Cine "Buy It Now" on eBay, the item number is 270245267673.
[ August 27, 2008, 06:26 AM: Message edited by: Maurice Leakey ]
Posted by Antoine Orsero (Member # 41) on August 27, 2008, 08:43 AM:
Dear Maurice,
You're right
I am confused with Spondon
Please Excuse me
Best regards
Posted by James E. Stubbs (Member # 817) on August 27, 2008, 08:53 PM:
I found this site on my side of the pond. I emailed them and this was theri reply. Thier catolog also specifically listed my unit as well as many others as being the correct bulb. Likely an excellent source of projection bulbs in the US. The exchange rate would be murder buying from the UK. I've also found a place here in Portland OR called Sunlan Lighting that's supposed to have every conceivable bulb on earth. I'll find out tomorrow.
Hello James,
The Xenophot is an Osram term for their EFR. Below is the link to the EFR which we do carry the Osram brand.
http://www.replacementlightbulbs.com/lampefr.html
Thank you,
Kat
Replacement Light Bulbs
Cheers,
Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 28, 2008, 05:19 AM:
James
At a price of $6.95 I can't believe that the "Replacement Light Bulbs"s lamp is a xenophot.
I should ask them to clarify that they are definitely xenophot before you buy.
Xenophots are always dearer than the bog-standard lamp.
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 28, 2008, 09:43 AM:
I think Maurice is correct. No way will you get a premium performance lamp at that price. Clearly, the supplier does not understand that the Xenophot is a special kind of lamp.
Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on August 28, 2008, 07:27 PM:
So the EFR is a 15-volt, 150w lamp, not the 24v lamp of the GS. I'm slowly getting the picture.
Paul, I just bought a few EFPs for my Eumig that claim to be Xenophot HLX bulbs, and I'll find out shortly if they're truly a "performance" bulb or not. They were dirt cheap.
Either there's a trademark license, violation, or these are genuine Osrams. For as cheap as they are, it's worth a try, right?
Posted by James E. Stubbs (Member # 817) on August 29, 2008, 12:21 AM:
Got this email from the lightbulb lady here in Portland. Seems more likely to be the correct bulb. I'll find out tomorrow.
hi
the computer said i have several EFR bulbs. they are 12.9o each. we are at 3901 N Mississippi Ave open 8-5:30 tomorrow.
kay at lightlady dot com
www.sunlanlighting.com
Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 29, 2008, 03:27 AM:
Digressing slightly, Bill, the lamp for the Elmo GS-1200 is the 24v, 200w, ESC.
This lamp is made for the Elmo. The bulb has a smaller filament to cover the 8mm gate.
The EJL (24v 200w) can be used at a pinch. There will be less light output as it's designed for 16mm use and the larger bulb filament covers the 16mm gate. Therefore, if used in the GS-1200 not all the light can get through the 8mm gate.
I use the word "bulb" to refer to the actual light output section, not the overall reflector unit which is, of, course, the same for each lamp.
[ August 29, 2008, 06:36 AM: Message edited by: Maurice Leakey ]
Posted by James E. Stubbs (Member # 817) on August 29, 2008, 06:31 PM:
Ok it's official: For all our friends on the USA side of the pond, Kay the lightbulb lady at www.sunlanlighting.com 3901 N. Mississippi Portland, OR. Has all the Xenophots you need! Her online catolog only lists daylight lighing. But haveing been in the store, trust me, she has about every conceiveable bulb on earth. Including about every possible Xenophot you'd need. The box reads: XENOPHOT 64634 HLX EFR 15v 150w GZ6, 35 That's the USA stock numebrs etc. It was $18.95 and she has plenty in stock. Has the 12v 100W common to ST-180E, ST600/800 And many other Osram Xenophot bulbs. She will ship anywhere. She can be reached at [kay at lightlady dotcom]
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 29, 2008, 07:23 PM:
Thank's so much James - that is great news. I will be placing an order for some Xenophots next week. Maybe we should post our test results.
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on August 29, 2008, 10:02 PM:
James
here are some light readings that you might find of interest from Moviemaker
ST1200 15/150watt fitted with a 1.3 lens in "foot candles"
low setting....centre brightness...18
high setting...centre brightness...24
ST1200 same lamp but this time fitted with a 1.1 lens
low setting....centre brightness...25
high setting...centre brightness...31
and for those with a GSI200 1.1 lens 200watt ESC lamp
low...27
high..39
not a lot of light difference between the GS1200 and the ST1200 with its 150watt "using a 1.1 lens on both projectors"
a rough guess they used to say about 25% more light with the 1.1 compared with the 1.3.
Graham.
PS. I think it would be fare to say that using a 200watt EJL that many people use in there GS1200 would produce less light than the standard EFR 150watt used in the ST1200, using a "150watt Xenophot" and 1.1 lens would be the way to go.
Posted by James E. Stubbs (Member # 817) on August 30, 2008, 03:24 AM:
Thanks Grham, that's golden information. I've put the Xenophot in and have been watching movies w/ my boys for hours. I'm a very fortunate fathter in that they realy enjoy watching the movies and will even ask to watch them.
The Xenophot is brilliant!!!!! It's 20%+ brighter than the original Elmo bulb on low! On high it's 40% brighter overall. At least it seems that way! I can't belive how brilliant my films look. Films that looked blotted out and really faded have come back to life w/ the new bulb. I'm watching WC Field's "If I Had A Million" just now. It the B&W looks brilliant and nice and contrasty! Man what a difference a new bulb makes. I think the original Elmo bulb must not have been that good and also very old. The color temp of the Xenophot is so much whiter it really makes my pinkish films look brilliant. I can't praise these bulbs enough.
Thank you Lighlady Kay [kayatlightladydotcom]for having them and thank you Osram for such brillance.
Cheers,
Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 30, 2008, 04:02 AM:
I just love a happy ending.
Posted by James E. Stubbs (Member # 817) on January 13, 2009, 06:59 PM:
Just talked to Steve at Reel Image. For those on the Americas side of the pond. He has ECCO ESC's 24v 200W for GS1200's for $33ea. or 2 for $60. Also has every other bulb including Xenophots you could want. thereelimage_043 at yahoo dot com.
Cheers,
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