8mm Forum: ESC Lamp for GS1200 Review

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Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on October 09, 2008, 06:29 PM:

BlueCineTech a small UK dealer of super8 film and accessories asked me if I would test an ESC lamp against an EJL made by Fuji Electric Lamp of Japan.

I jumped at the idea but was rather sceptical having tested other so called ESC lamps in the past which showed no advantage over std EJL's probably being rebadged EJL's [Frown]

The lamps arrived a few weeks a go and I finally got round to doing some tests last weekend.

2 Things we have to remember about the Original ESC lamps sold by Elmo is that they have only 4 very compact twists to the filament compared to the EJL which has 5. This helps to concentrate the light more but due to the very close proximity of the twists it does reduce lamp life down to 25hrs (point 2).

I opened both lamps to compare them and my heart sank [Frown]

Yes I couldn't see any difference between the 2...another rebadged EJL?

Not having a Std GS1200 to hand I decided to check both lamps out in my Elmo 16CL to see if there was any difference. If there wasn't there would be no point in going any further.
In with the EJL and the results were as expected. Nice and bright for a 200W lamp and fairly even with a small fall off on one side of the screen.
In with the ESC next and I expected to see something similar but hey whats this? a hot spot in the middle of the screen [Eek!]

Both lamps look the same and both have the 5 twists to the filament so whats going on?

The next step was to try both lamps in a std GS1200. Having a friend not too far away with a std machine which I had put a 2 blade shutter in not so long a go, I went armed with my 2 lamps and a lux meter to see how these lamps performed.
The EJL again gave very even results over the 8mm gate much like we are used to with any EJL. The ESC was however a different kettle of fish. The Hot spot (seen in my 16CL) was no longer visible but the difference in brightness increase was immediately apparent to the naked eye.
I set the machine up to give a 3ft wide picture and then went to the screen to take some lux measurements with the measuring head facing the projector. The results confirmed what we were seeing but what I didn't expect was the difference I got in the readings. In the center of the screen the increase was a full 25% over the EJL and in the corners it fell to approx 20% over the EJL. Seeing as most action is in the center of the screen and not in the corners the eye doesn't see this slight fall off.
Its a real shame that I no longer have an Elmo badged ESC to hand as a comparison between the 2 makes as this would have been a really interesting comparison.

So we have an ESC lamp which gives more light output than any other lamp currently in the market place for use in the GS and an average 50hrs life! How have Fuji Electrical achieved this? The simple answer to this is that I'm not sure.
I can see a difference between the internal measurement across the front of the reflector which on the ESC is nearly 2mm smaller but I also think they have mounted the lamp slightly further forward in the reflector. Whatever has been done it is giving a real advantage over the std EJL and it's great to see a lamp for the GS which once more gives the GS the light output it was once renowned for.

If anyone wants to buy these lamps they can be obtained from BlueCineTech

and this link will take you straight to the lamps page of which they have all popular makes at very good prices. BlueCineTech lamps

BlueCineTech take all major credit cards as well as PayPal in their online store and offer a discount on 3 or more.

Before anyone asks I have no interests with this company but am just pleased to be able to help out with the valuable tests etc. The lamps for test were just taken randomly from stock.

My thanks to Bart for supplying the lamps for test and I can give actual Lux measurements if anyone is really interested.

Kev.

Posted by Lance Alspaugh (Member # 27) on October 09, 2008, 08:56 PM:

Kevin,

Thanks so much for the link on this company and the bulbs to found there. I have placed our order for four of them. Will update upon arrival!

LA

Posted by Mike Tynus (Member # 1108) on October 09, 2008, 10:33 PM:

Kevin,
I just placed my order and can't wait to see the results! Your review is really appreciated.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on October 10, 2008, 03:33 AM:

Wonderful news. ESC's are back again and I know where to order as soon as my stock of old genuine ESC's expires.

Well done BlueCineTech and thanks Kevo for taking the time to check them out.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on October 10, 2008, 03:51 AM:

Kevin
Thanks for those test results 25% is big improvement, the price also looks good, we have a convention coming up next month might see if I can generate enough interest to buy some in bulk.

Graham.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on October 10, 2008, 06:37 AM:

Thanks for the comments. Its good to see a lamp giving such an improvement.

Kev.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on October 10, 2008, 02:48 PM:

Guys, ESC lamps were never actually gone. As I explained in a message posted on this forum a few years back, some of these were being used in dentists light systems. 4 coils. The real deal. Got my batch from a distributor here. Pricey (roughly £25 each) but at the time this was the only source.

Posted by Bart Smith (Member # 780) on October 10, 2008, 03:54 PM:

I guess the only 'news' here is that someone has measured the performance of the Fuji ESC and found it to be a worthwhile replacement for the original Elmos. I asked Kevin if he would do so, so it is hats off to him for his sterling efforts really. I was sceptical about them to be honest, but felt it would be worth sacrificing a few £££ to see whether or not they were a worthwhile proposition. To be honest I was quite surprised to see that Kevin's appraisal was so positive! I don't have a GS1200 so was unable to check them out myself.

The same lamps have been offered for sale by other dealers for some time - this is not some great new discovery. I know that Paul Foster lists them on his site, and it is a 100% certainty that they are the same lamps that we are selling at BlueCineTech.

Anyway, I'm planning to broaden the range of lamps that we sell, and I'm trying to offer a sensible selection of lamps at affordable prices to cater for all aficionados of REAL FILM.

At the moment the range is a bit basic. If anyone would like to suggest other lamps that we might consider listing, I'd love to have their feedback.

To those of you who have purchased some lamps today, they have all been packed and sent off so should be with you soon.

Thanks (especially to Kev),

Bart

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on October 10, 2008, 04:36 PM:

JM, I think you will find that the supply of the ESC with the 4 twists has now ceased completely.

I tried to get some of these ESC's listed on a US site for use in Dentist euipment and was told they are no longer available. This same distributor suggested the EJL as a "suitable" replacement [Frown]

I have looked at other so called ESC's that are being sold by another Japanese supplier and there is no way that they give the advantage that this Fuji lamp does and I would say that I'm sure they are simply rebadged EJL's which lets face it is a bit of a con.

It was a real delight to test a lamp that at long last gives an advantage to the GS user and probably the Dental profession a like.

Bart has a small business here and is selling lamps at very keen prices and I am glad to say that he at least wanted to know they were right for the job before selling them on to us collectors. I think this is more than other suppliers have done.

For the number of ESC's sold worlwide it cant be worth a supplier tooling up to make one lamp with the 4 twists when all the other lmaps they make have 5 but at least it looks like Fuji have gone that one step further to make sure that what they are selling and badging as an ESC does give the advantage expected or at least some of the advantage.

Kev.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on October 11, 2008, 04:37 AM:

Just had a very pleasant chat with Bart and ordered some lamps to keep my three GS-1200s going.

It's good to know that there are still enthusiastic dealers who are helping to keep our lovely hobby alive. Projectors will always need lamps.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on October 11, 2008, 04:22 PM:

Yes that reminds me! seeing the camera film he has in stock tells me that it's about time I got my super8 cameras out and dusted down.

Kev.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on October 13, 2008, 04:11 AM:

My lamps have just arrived (with the speed of light) and I must thank Bart for a super service.

Posted by Mal Brake (Member # 14) on October 13, 2008, 05:29 AM:

Having placed an order over the phone Saturday morning, my lamps also arrived this morning. Great service from BlueTech and the mail.
Mal

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on October 14, 2008, 05:07 PM:

Have you guys tried your lamps yet? Let us know if you agree with my findings.

Kev.

Posted by Lance Alspaugh (Member # 27) on October 15, 2008, 02:35 PM:

Kevin,

Bulb is an excellent improvement and quite bright for the 200 watts it has. A winner and welcome addition! Thanks for the referral.

LA

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on October 15, 2008, 07:10 PM:

It would be interesting to know what proportion of the ESC market is dentists and what proportion is GS owners! I suppose the attributes of the Fuji lamp may be of greater benefit to GS owners, so I suppose there must still be a lot in use.

Funnily enough, my dentist has been to a couple of my film shows so I'll ask him if he uses ESCs next time I see him!

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on October 15, 2008, 07:18 PM:

What kind of dental equipment uses this lamp?

I would imagine if it's that overhead light they work by a 250W lamp would leave the patient and everyone else in the room seeing blue blobs for quite a while!

The photoflood I use when I shoot my titles is only 50W more and it's absolutely blinding!

Posted by Bart Smith (Member # 780) on October 16, 2008, 01:06 PM:

quote:
Bulb is an excellent improvement and quite bright for the 200 watts it has. A winner and welcome addition! Thanks for the referral.

Hi Lance,

Just out of interest which EJLs do you consider it to be an improvement over?

Bart

PS When did the lamps arrive? Just interested in knowing how long they took to cross the Atlantic

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on October 16, 2008, 02:30 PM:

Bart,

Will you be having a stall at the BFCC to sell your lamps? It would be good to see Blue Cine represented there, I understand Perrys table is up for grabs! [Wink]

My first attempt to order lamps from you seemed to coincide with an outage on the Pay-Pal site - looking at the above posts I wonder if demand for your ESCs overwhelmed it! [Smile]

Mike

Posted by Bart Smith (Member # 780) on October 16, 2008, 02:38 PM:

Hi Mike,

I did enquire with John Clancy about having a stall, but I can't do this Saturday as my wife is away at a conference and I've got to look after our daughter. Can't find anyone to babysit, so it will be a pleasant day in lovely Hackney for the two of us!

I may try and make it later in the afternoon (once the wife is back), but no stall for me I'm afraid this year. I'm pretty determined to get one in the spring however. I normally attend every other BFCC or so, last time was a year ago.

I always run into a quite a number of people I know when I go there, so it is a bit of a catch-up event and worth going for just to see some familiar faces!

I'm not aware of anyone on this forum that I know, but I've dealt in Super 8 stuff since 1992 so I suppose there must be someone here who would recognise my ugly mug!

Bart

Posted by Lance Alspaugh (Member # 27) on October 17, 2008, 03:06 AM:

Good Day Bart,

These Fuji bulbs look quite sharp next to the Osram bulb we had been using. I would say it gives off more light at 200 watts compared to 250 Watts on the Osram. I think it also looks better than the Phillips bulbs we tested.

As to shipping, I must say they arrived in about 7 business days. Surprisingly fast and well packaged. Cheers.

LA

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on October 17, 2008, 03:30 AM:

Lance

What projector were you using?

Posted by Lance Alspaugh (Member # 27) on October 17, 2008, 05:41 PM:

Test Projector was the ever reliable work horse Elmo GS 1200.

LA

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on October 18, 2008, 02:03 AM:

Lance

I assumed you were using a GS-1200 but was confused over your remark about "compared to 250 watts on the Osram."

Were you, in fact, using a 250 watt (ELC) or was this a slip of your typing fingers meaning a 200watt EJL?

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on October 19, 2008, 06:53 AM:

The 250W ELC will always look less bright than the ESC or even EJL. The ELC being 24V/250W will not run at full voltage in the GS1200 because the current drawn is higher than the 200W lamps and the GS1200 cant supply the extra current so the lamp is under run.
This can also lead to the transformer running hot with eventual breakdown of the transformers windings.

I hope you didnt really mean the ELC in the GS1200?

Kev.

Posted by Lance Alspaugh (Member # 27) on October 19, 2008, 07:26 PM:

Thanks for the notation. While we have tested an Osram 250 watt bulb in the GS in the past, we were not impressed with the light output and have stuck to 200 watt bulbs.

But you are right, a numeric slip as we have only been using EJL bulbs on our GS machines for some time.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on November 15, 2008, 12:14 PM:

Anyone else obtained and tried one of these Fuji lamps in their GS1200?

Let us know what you found compared to the EJL's.

Kev.

Posted by Mal Brake (Member # 14) on November 15, 2008, 06:14 PM:

Hi Kev
Well, I was due to try one on a 7ft screen last Monday in a presentation to a History Society. However, minutes before the start the GS decided to play up again so I had to revert to The 1200HD.
Happily, we managed to repair the GS today and I am making a presentation to retired staff from the GWR next Wednesday afternoon in a large social club.That should be a good test, again using the 7ft screen. The GS has a 3 blade shutter so I'm going to need the extra lumens.
Mal

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on November 15, 2008, 07:11 PM:

Mal, it's great to hear members using their machines to give shows still. I used to give shows at kids parties etc back in the 80's and 90's but most shows these days are for the family here at home.

Glad your GS is up and running again. Nothing serious I hope? and good luck with the forthcoming show.

Kev.

Posted by Mal Brake (Member # 14) on November 15, 2008, 08:14 PM:

Kev,
Next Wednesday's show will be the fourth since the last BFCC. People are amazed to see projected film and there is always plenty of interest after the presentations end.

We had one annoying and two serious problems with the GS.
The take- up motor was producing a lot of electrical interference noise through the speakers but it was running ok with no loss of torque. The motor tested ok and after tracing the leads we found a resistor had gone to ground.

The other major problem was the GS deciding to go at 6fps only in FWD or REV. This turned out to be dirty contacts where the control keys assembly locates with its chassis socket.
The annoying problem was sprocket noise on the top sprocket shoe.
We removed and cleaned the complete unit, finding one of the rollers wasn't turning. It's much quieter now and everything is working ok.....until the next time [Roll Eyes]

Mal

Posted by John Edwards (Member # 1333) on November 16, 2008, 04:01 AM:

hello kevin. have been reading your up date for ESC lamp for GS1200 what reading did you get with lux meter? the reason i am asking is the readings i get with my schneider 1.1 fitted to beaulieu twintrack is 224 low light setting and 264 high light setting i my projector does have a wider aperture than the elmo GS1200 so 150w lamp fitted can give quite a bright light on 1 metre base screen at distance of 3 metres there has in the passed been talk of both being equal dont get me wrong the elmo is a class projector when running well all machines have their good and bad points its all down to personal choice so no discussion on which one is better than the other.John(ED) [Smile]

Posted by Mal Brake (Member # 14) on November 19, 2008, 11:45 AM:

The ESC lamp had a good try-out today. I was making a presentation to retired GWR staff members in a large social club screening 8mm railway films. The show started at 2.15pm on a bright sunny afternoon.

The windows had unlined curtains so blackout was less than ideal but the 3-bladed GS fitted with a new lamp did a great job filling the 7ft wide 4x3 screen. Even the evening/night scenes were more than acceptable, daytime scenes were excellent. As the credits rolled on the last film I switched to the low setting and there was still plenty of light hitting the screen.
So thumbs up from me for the Fuji lamp.
Mal

Posted by Bart Smith (Member # 780) on September 22, 2009, 05:22 AM:

Hi all,

Just resurrecting this old thread with a bit of news:

I'm pleased to say that I have just received a large consignment of these Fuji ESC lamps, and are able to offer them for a considerably reduced price, just £11.75 each, or as little as £9.99 if you buy a mix of any 5 lamps from my website.

www.bluecinetech.co.uk/cine-projector-lamps.php

Shipping starts at £1.50 within the UK, £1.75 within Europe, and only £2.25 for the rest of the world...

You can pay with your Credit Card or using your PayPal account.

I believe this to be the best deal that anyone is offering on these ESC lamps worldwide!

I've also got large quantities of Super and Standard 8 leader, all Kodak, but no prices up on the site as yet.

***End of shameless plug***

Thanks,

Bart

Posted by Greg Marshall (Member # 1268) on October 22, 2009, 10:28 PM:

Are the Fuji lamps still available? Does anyone know if they're available in the US?

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on October 23, 2009, 04:22 AM:

John, It is possible for some machines to have nearly the equivalent light output to the GS1200. The Beaulieu you have is probably running with the two blade shutter but more importantly the Beaulieu like the Noris machines has a very fast claw pull down time which means that the shutter open segments can be wider than on machines such as the GS. This will obviously give more light on the screen.
The down side of this arrangement is that its not uncommon on some machines to find that as they get older the picture gets a little more unsteady due to the extra wear from the very fast movement of the claw. This is certainly the case in Noris machines I have seen but not sure about Beaulieu.

I dont have the figures now so cant let you have a direct comparison but certainly back in the days of the Movie Maker magazine who tested virtualy all machines they did acknowledge the GS as having the brightest light output and it became the benchmark that all others were jusdged against.

Kev.

Posted by Greg Marshall (Member # 1268) on November 05, 2009, 10:40 PM:

OK, I have received my shipment of the ESC's. Once my GS arrives, I will then give one a try. I'm definitely looking forward to a brighter, sharper (thanks to the 1.0) picture than what I have from the ST (1.3).

I will report back here my findings.

Posted by Jose Artiles (Member # 471) on November 06, 2009, 06:10 PM:

Hi Greg!
you will be amazing about how brigth the picture looks with this esc lamps,you´ll not be desappointed in any way! i use the esc on my gs to show indiana jones in a 5 meter scope screen and was plenty of ligth!!
enjoy!! [Big Grin]

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