8mm Forum: How Blackhawk spooled their films?

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 11, 2009, 02:37 AM:

I have at home Little Rascals "Hide and Shriek" spooled in 200 feet.

Having seen this IMDB's description, it says that "Hide and Shriek" is 10 minutes. So it is in accordance with my very full 200 feet reel, since 200 feet means 10 minutes.

But this Ebay sold Hide and Shriek in 400 reel. I have re-confirmed the seller and he replied that definitely it was in 7 inch reel (400 feet).

If it is the same movie length with my 200 feet then why Blackhawk spooled it in 400 reel, while they also released in 200 reel?

Secondly, if this happened, would they price it with 400's price accordingly?

Thirdly, if it is a full 400" reel, what will be inside the reel beside the "Hide and Shriek"?

regards,

[ March 11, 2009, 03:50 AM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 11, 2009, 11:06 AM:

I saw that too. Beats the living heck out of me, but I do have an idea ...

If this is one of the silent Little rascal/Our Gang comedies, there's a chance that Blackhawk released a sound version with an organ soundtrack.

I have a sound copy of "Barney Olfields Race for Life", which is a classic silent, running about 10 minutes. The sound version has been artificially made for 24 frame per second sound, (when it was originally shot at 16 frames, I believe) and given a soundtrack, and it fills a 400ft reel.

Therefore, if "Hide and Shriek" was originally silent, this might be why it is on a 400ft.

Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on March 11, 2009, 11:44 AM:

http://heustess.com/episodes.htm

Hello. This is a sound episode. There are at least two kinds of LITTLE RASCALS/OUR GANG episodes (I'm not meaning silent or sound): 1 reel shorts (normally mounted on a 200 ft reel, in super 8) or 2 reels shorts (mounted on a 400 ft reel in super 8).
This episode you are referring to is a 1 reel one. So it's a 10 minutes film. The fact is that LITTLE RASCALS episodes have been distributed by BLACKHAWK mounted on both 200 and 400 ft reels. Winbert, the one you have is absolutely complete! It is possible to find both versions, but the 400 ft reel in which sometimes you can find it IT'S NOT FULL AT ALL! So be happy: yours is a genuine and complete one.
I've been collecting this series. Take a look here:

http://www.tv.com/little-rascals/show/10343/episode_listings.html?season=All

Take a look here also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Gang

Take care.
GL

[ March 11, 2009, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: Gian Luca Mario Loncrini ]

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on March 11, 2009, 06:23 PM:

I have 2 of these and 1 is on a 200' reel (almost over full) and the other is on a 400' reel. They are identical. I believe that Blackhawk in the late 70's decided to cut down on the cost of using a 7" reel and a 7" box which is why some are on a 200' reel, but the footage is identical scene-for-scene.

Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on March 11, 2009, 06:43 PM:

Hi Bred, I agree with you. I have some of the 1-reel episodes mounted on 400 ft reels not full and supplied in a 'big' box. And some others mounted on 200 ft reels almost over full. But the footage is totally the same!
So, Winbert, don't worry: as you can see the mistery is now solved.
Ciao.

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on March 11, 2009, 06:59 PM:

As a preventive measure, it is best and logical
to have a one reel short of this length,
mounted onto a 400 foot reel.

For whether if is Derann, Blackhawk or how
anyone may mount their films, it's best not to cram so much onto a reel.

There is tendency for the film
to potentially unspool and wreak havoc,
when the film is tool close to
the edge of the reel.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 11, 2009, 09:42 PM:

Ok guys thanks for many replies. It relieves me since I bought from Ebay last month this very title for only $5 and the last ebay was $ 38!! So I knew I was the lucky one now [Cool]

I knew that during the 8mm heyday, films were sold based on reel size not the actual film length. So in this case, did Blackhawk price that very title differently i.e because reels are different (7 inch vs 5 inch)?

regards,

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on March 12, 2009, 02:47 PM:

I can't speak to the original selling price, but I also bought a used Blackhawk (a sports newsreel in this case) of 10 minutes' length, and it was supplied on a 400' reel.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on March 12, 2009, 03:45 PM:

Many of my Blackhawk shorts that are about 200' or more, were also released on 400' reels (I really prefer them this way) - Shorty

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on March 12, 2009, 03:46 PM:

Many of my Blackhawk shorts that are about 200' or more, were also released on 400' reels (I really prefer them this way) - Shorty

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on March 12, 2009, 05:15 PM:

I wish they did them all that way I have some serial episodes that are on 2x200 reels.....UGH! [Mad]

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on March 12, 2009, 08:18 PM:

If my memory serves me well,
new prints released by Blackhawk of Hide and Shriek
sold for $13.98.

Keep in mind that the film stripe adds more
volume to the reel.

Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on March 13, 2009, 12:05 AM:

Blackhawk didnt start using 400' reels until 1970

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 13, 2009, 01:35 AM:

So, John, did you say that the 400' reel of Hide and Shriek come later after the 200' reel "version"? So the using of 200" reels did not mean to cut their cost as previously discussed here?

cheers,

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 13, 2009, 10:45 AM:

You know, considering the high quality the Blackhawk nearly always maintained, it's amazing that they would sell a full unedited Little rascals or Our Gang film for a mere 13 dollars!

Sure, 13 dollars was worth more back then, but that's still a bargain price. I remember digests (such as Star Wars) going for 59.00 dollars or more (400ft) no matter whether the quality was worth it or not.

Posted by Panayotis A. Carayannis (Member # 1220) on March 13, 2009, 06:06 PM:

It is as simple as that. If a one reeler was a full ten minutes or slightly more (eleven or twelve!!),it was put on a 400 ft reel.And Blackhawk at least did mention the exact running time and length. Other companies didn't always !

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on March 13, 2009, 08:56 PM:

Hi Winbert,

It was a big announcement at the time
and I believe that Blackhawk had begun to roll out the
Our Gang/Little Rascals shorts around 1974.
Some are on 200, or 400 foot reels. The title: Small Talk,
was their first talkie and a three reeler.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 13, 2009, 11:10 PM:

They only did a handful of three reeler Our Gang Comedies. I have one of the other ones, "Hide and Shriek".

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on March 14, 2009, 12:30 AM:

quote:
And Blackhawk at least did mention the exact running time and length. Other companies didn't always !

That was one of the absolute best qualities of blackhawk releases. [Big Grin]

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on March 14, 2009, 03:50 PM:

Osi,

Perhaps you intentioned that Spook Spoofing and not
Hide and Shriek was a three reeler for Roach.

The only other three reeler is Small Talk.

Shivering Shakespeare may seem long, but it's a two reeler.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 14, 2009, 07:09 PM:

Micheal ...

You are ever so correct! Spook Spoofing is the the three reeler, and that is what I have.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 15, 2009, 06:06 PM:

Hey folks, a little bit of fun trivia concerning The "Our Gang"
comedies.

Stan laurel makes a cameo appearance in the silent comedy, "Seeing the World". When asked, Stan laurel didn't recollect being in it.
This was probably because most of the scenic scenes were taken from existing travelogues or newsreel footage, and there must have been some with Stan in it.

Just some fun trivia!

Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on March 15, 2009, 06:10 PM:

Very interesting!

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on March 16, 2009, 06:33 PM:

Stan also helped shape the script for the
silent Our Gang comedy: "A Close Shave."
I found a receipt online that he was paid $10.00

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