8mm Forum: Suggestions for a low-cost Super 8 Projector

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Posted by Brad Anesi (Member # 1555) on April 15, 2009, 10:28 AM:

If you can't tell from my subject heading, yes, I'm a newbie here. [Big Grin]

I've just been given a bunch of Super 8 movies from my high school football days, plus there's a few random movie reels around the house from the 60's. I mostly intend to move them to digital format - considered just sending them out, but I'd like to figure out what I have here first and at least organize them accordingly.

So I'm looking to pick up a projector - likely on eBay or Craigslist - and I'm sorta lost. I've done some reading here and see Elmo and Eumig highly recommended, but I really don't want to spend that kind of cash. I'm looking for something in the sub $50 range.

Any general and/or specific recommendations appreciated, either of brands/models to avoid/purchase as well as features I'd need.

One thing I've learned to check for is bulb replacement cost. Even though I'd ask if the bulb works, we all know it could be 10 minutes away from failure. I was considering a Bell & Howell 466 ZB until I saw the DLH bulb cost was $75!

I see that some of you indicate avoiding the dual format projectors, but I know there's at least one film I have that is 8mm rather than Super 8. I could always send just that one out for transfer, if you really feel strongly that I should stick with a dedicated Super 8 machine.

None of the films I have include audio. It seems then that I should avoid projectors that include this capability, yes? I read something about it being detrimental to the transfer process.

Enough for one post. Appreciate any input and/or links to previous discussions that I didn't find when searching.

Thanks...

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on April 15, 2009, 03:06 PM:

Hi Brad, good to have you aboard. I'm sure that in the near future you will receive many responses to your dilemma from our most knowledgeable and helpful membership.

However, I expect you will get a multitude of different ideas and opinions, right down to wondering why you want to convert to digital anyway, as you will find many members are dedicated film enthusiasts per se.

Nevertheless, you will no doubt pick up a lot of useful information which will enable you to make the right decision for your application.

Good luck and enjoy your membership. [Big Grin]

With best regards,

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on April 15, 2009, 04:04 PM:

Hi Brad, and welcome.

One thing I will add is:
Be careful not to go too cheap, as you don't want to find out that you have permanently marred the films with scratches from a dubious projector.

A little Elmo, like the 180, might be just what you are looking for. An Eumig in the 807-810 range is also a nice basic (but good-quality) machine. I understand you don't want to spend a lot, but at the same time, don't undervalue the reality of these films.
Unlike DVDs, a film will keep playing, but it will also show its scars. You don't want that.
Transfers to video can easily be done with sound. It just generally costs more.

Feel free to check in with more questions before you decide. We are happy to help.

Best,
Claus.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on April 15, 2009, 07:02 PM:

Hi Brad,

Maybe what you really need is an editor/viewer. They should be pretty plentiful used and will be cheaper than a projector. This will let you see what's what pre-transfer.

They are also simpler so there is less to go wrong and a better chance that they will work in the first place (no belts, no motor.....etc.)

Trying whatever you get on a piece of scrap film first is always a good idea. This goes double for a good cleaning first.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on April 16, 2009, 03:25 AM:

Take a look at the 'getting started' page on bfcc.biz as that was knocked up to give those new to the hobby a starting point.

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on April 16, 2009, 04:52 AM:

Hi Brad, and indeed welcome to the Forum! Be warned though; it´s addictive! [Big Grin]

I think Steve has the best advice if you´re on a next-to-zero budget; get a good (Erno, Goko, etc) viewer, clean it THOROUGHLY, run a piece of film of zero value and inspect it for damage.

Then go through all your reels and make notes.

If you do decide to go for a projector at a later stage, Elmos are outstanding quality. If the addiction takes hold, you will find yourself owning SEVERAL Elmos in a couple of years... [Big Grin]

Cheers
Lars

Posted by Christopher P Quinn (Member # 1294) on April 16, 2009, 05:58 PM:

Hi Brad,

If your just wanting to view your super 8 home movies before you get them put on to DVD, i would just buy an editor to flick through them. If they are sound films then you will need an editor with a sound head, built in or as an attachment, (although these don’t tend to work that well). Although a silent machine will still work of course, but you won’t hear what’s on the soundtrack. If your film is sound it will have a brown stripe running down the side of the film.

If you still want to go for a projector, then something like a chinnon would be cheap, and as long as you use your common sense look for one that has not been used much and it should be ok. I have used chinnons on and off for years and only ever got unlucky once and that was my fault. If you do get into it though then a Eumig or Elmo should be your next buy.

Good luck and welcome.

Posted by Brad Anesi (Member # 1555) on April 17, 2009, 03:30 PM:

Finally getting back over here. I must have forgotten to check the Email notification box - that's fixed now. [Wink]

Thanks for the feedback - I'll have to investigate just what exactly a "viewer" is vs. a projector. [Confused]

A Chinon is one of the ones I was considering. They seem fairly common, bulbs/belts are available/inexpensive, and they seem to be regarded well for the price-point they're at.

Incidentally, there's a 220V Eumig 600D on eBay right now that's not getting the minimum $45 bid (with 4 hours to go). Probably the 220V that's scaring people away.

Thanks for the feedback - feel free to keep it coming. [Big Grin]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on April 17, 2009, 08:37 PM:

A Viewer/Editor is a small back lit screen with hand crank film transport which allows a user to see movie film in a brightly lit room. It's a lot easier to deal with than a projector when you want to edit together films.

Try this: Search E-bay for "8mm editor viewer". There's a whole bunch on there right now, just as there usually is.

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on April 18, 2009, 01:30 AM:

Brad
yes welcome, and hopefully you will continue on beyond the home movie transfer phase... It sounded like this may be your goal? If so I think you could do very nicely with a chinon 2500gl. Even though it is a dual, I think it could do the job you want since it will allow you to transfer all the film you currently have, it has the adjustable speed function you'll need to eliminate the flicker (This is why you may have been advised AWAY from sound machines since they usually have 2 fixed speeds) and the bulb is a relatively inexpensive one (It looks like a little spaceman) and it is somewhat dim at 50 watts so if you are using one of those little transfer boxes or shooting against a little white matte or mini screen there is less chance of a "hot spot" or light flare. The only thing I would advise on this little chinon is to load the film with the side panel off just in case... One of the problems with autoload projectors is they go in and if they don't come out the other end quickly you may ruin the film if it gets caught on something while loading and it will just fold itself over and over like an accordian...This is especially something to look out for when wanting to buy a less expensive projector.

If you hopefully wind up getting the bug while transferring your films then you'll want to move up to a more powerful projector as the 50 watts of light this little guy gives off will not please you in the long run

Posted by Brad Anesi (Member # 1555) on April 18, 2009, 11:00 AM:

Claus wrote...
"Unlike DVDs, a film will keep playing"

What did you mean by this Claus?

Anyone have any thoughts on the Chinon 727? I'm seeing those often on Craigslist and eBay. Is it a step down from the 2500?

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on April 18, 2009, 11:14 AM:

Claus was probably referring to the fact that there are films from the 1890s around that can still be projected and look fine, whereas the shelf life of a CD/DVD is unknown as of yet. Some say CDs can last as little as ten years. [Roll Eyes]

Cheers
Lars

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on April 18, 2009, 12:11 PM:

Yes, as Lars put it. A film with scratches will still run, but with DVDs it's pretty much "either/or" or we just don't know the lifespan of them.
If the player can't read the TOC (table of contents) then you get nothing.
I just learned this the hard way, when my Playstation 3 died. I believe the laser quit. So now it's off to Sony to the tune of about $150....two weeks past the warranty.

Claus.

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on April 19, 2009, 01:40 AM:

Brad while the Chinon 727 is a step down from the 2500, it is not that far down. I think for what you appear to be looking for in an introductory projector this would do ok. BUT make sure it is one in good shape since it is a lower end machine and has a great deal of plastic parts which if broken could causes a number of problems.

Posted by Brad Anesi (Member # 1555) on May 09, 2009, 04:38 PM:

Okay, I just picked up a Chinon 2500GL for $50. It is VERY complete, including power cord, manual, original box & foam, take-up reel, Super8 adapter, extra CXL bulb, warranty card, splice kit, lens cap, quick instructions card, heck, even the receipt dated 12/2/85 was in the box! Sale price of $79.00, if you're wondering - regular price was $119.94.

And yes, it runs, and the installed bulb works! I haven't run any film through it yet - I'm gonna post a new thread on a recomended pre-use check-list.

Before getting this unit, I almost "zigged" on my plan and went for a 400-series Bell & Howell. Indeed, they are more rugged machines than the Chinons, and a couple of them do have adjustable speed. But the speed adjustment on most is mechanical, and again, the price of the bulbs is a buzz-kill! With a model 466, you could easily spend more for a single bulb than the projector itself!

Thanks for all the input. Watch, I'll still probably end of picking up a Eumig one day. [Big Grin]

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on May 10, 2009, 02:26 PM:

Hi Neighbor,
I, too, am from Orange County, NY. I have 2 Chinon 7000s and a Eumig 802. The Chinons use a spring type belt. I've had them for quite a long time and I love them. The Eumig is a well-constructed machine, but I think it can be rather unforgiving on very used film - also I'm not too crazy about the sound head assembly - it can't really be cleaned which down the road could be a not-so-good thing.

Posted by Brad Anesi (Member # 1555) on May 11, 2009, 08:47 AM:

Looks like in addition to everything else, our names match too!

Ran a couple films through the 2500 yesterday. Indeed it works out of the box, but the shutter seems to have one spot in it's rotation where it hangs up. If it gets stopped there, the rubber belt will spin on the next start-up. The belt and/or motor isn't the cause - I removed the belt and the shutter still has the "home" location in it's rotation when I spin it by hand.

Wondering if there are any forums that have a more active Chinon owner base. Nothing against this site at all - it just seems a little more focused on the higher end units.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on May 11, 2009, 09:20 AM:

Hey Brad (Kimball)

Cleaning the Eumig 800 seies sound heads is not very easy, but It's not very hard either. This method was written by Paul Adsett and I've used the thorough method a couple of times: it's not that bad!

METHOD 1: (for a quick clean). The sound head is located right underneath the Bulb. It has a white cable coming out of it, which plugs into a receptacle on the chassis. For a real quick clean, take a can of air duster and blast air down into the Teflon film chute at the front of the sound head assembly. This will blow out any loose oxide particles in the sound head. This process is recommended after every couple of reels, to keep oxide from building up inside the head assembly.

METHOD 2: ( FOR A THOROUGH CLEAN, THIS PROCEDURE TAKES ABOUT 30 MINUTES, AND REQUIRES DISSASSEMBLY OF THE SOUND HEAD).
1. Set the control knob to the Forward position then pull off the black control knob at the side of the projector. Remove the lamp housing cover.
2. Pull off the volume control knob and the mixing control knob.
3. Undo the screw located between the volume control knob and the mixing knob, and pull the side panel forward and out to expose the inside of the projector.
4. Unplug the sound head, then undo the single screw which bolts the sound head to the chassis wall.
5. Remove the sound head.
6. Look at the sound head. There are a total of 6 screws in view. Do NOT touch the four innermost screws, they are used for the critical elevation and azimuth alignment of the sound head to the magnetic tracks on the film. Undo the 2 outer screws to remove only the MU-METAL magnetic shield, and the pressure pad assembly. You now have total access to the heads and pressure pads for a thorough cleaning with alcohol. Be very gentle in wiping the head areas. You may wish to de-magnetize the heads while you are at it, using a Radio Shack tape- head demagnetizing probe. Also polish the film channel and pressure pads with Pledge or Favor furniture polish.
7. After cleaning, reassemble the mu-metal shield and pressure pad assembly to the head, and tighten down the 2 outermost screws.
8. Align locating hole on the sound head with the pin in the chassis, and bolt back into place with the single screw. Plug the sound head back into the wall connector.
9. Reassemble the side panel, audio knobs, and Main control knob. Return the control knob to the OFF position

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on May 11, 2009, 02:12 PM:

Brad,

"focused on the higher end units" ...Once you have been seduced by the Dark Side of the Force, nothing else will do... [Big Grin]

Oh, and the shutter "home" location would probably be the rest position for the claw assy pulldown spring -I don´t have a Chinon but this would make sense to me. Also if the drive belt slips when you start the projector but works fine within a few seconds, I would guess it´s a very slight play that is remedied by the heat inside the machine once it gets going. I´ve had this on a projector of mine for years, and it´s a problem that´s very easy to live with.

Cheers
Lars

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on May 11, 2009, 10:34 PM:

Thanks, Steve. I'll give it a try over the weekend.

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