8mm Forum: Mag Stripes ...

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 10, 2009, 06:47 PM:

A post I made on the "splices" post I made, reminded me about mag stripes in general.

It seems like, over the years, mag stripe quality seems to have varied a lot, and from what I have read over time, (and heard with my own sound films), mag stripes can be affected by any number of things.

From what I have seen, even the glue used to cement the mag stripe to the film can even affect the quality of sound reproduction.

So, how about having a rousing discussion concerning mag stripes?

For instance ....

What era of mag stripe was the best?
Who's releases had the best sound quality?
Brown or grey mag stripe, which is best?

and ...

Why does the quality vary so much on todays mag stripes? You would think that stripe technology would continue to go up, but it seems like it's hit or miss these days.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on May 10, 2009, 06:56 PM:

The best stripe was on kodak LPP prestripe from around 82-1990 and possibly OK on sp before that I think was good too.
Its a laminate stuck on and never seems to want to shift, the sound is usually very good and the blance stripe is also superb.

Theres was a little decent agfa prestripe I belive in the early 90,s but that stopped so since then Derann have has to stripe their own and at first it took some doing to get it right.

The grey stripe now is very slightly bitty if you look closely but does a very good job indeed.

Walton and iver films had paste stripe which comes off a bit quite easily when cleaning but of course can`t get stuck and come off. I don`t think its as good as a proper lamnate stripe myself.

I believe the now German releases are laminate glued on.

Best Mark.

Posted by Jim Carlile (Member # 812) on May 12, 2009, 10:03 PM:

Best magstripe was the Kodak Sonotrac. It's the one they put on their sound film, and until the late 80s they'd post stripe films, too, in Rochester. Great stuff.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on May 13, 2009, 05:53 AM:

I just had about eight 50' foot rolls of processed 64-T sound striped by E.V.T. in the U.K.

They used the liquid stripe, which I had always avoided when I was using Kodachrome film. I've always used the laminated stripe.

Please hear this- That liquid stripe is the BEST I've had! I just got through recording the movies, mixing music, sound effects, and recorded dialog, and honestly, I was really surprised how strong the sound is. Strong bass & treble, and no drop-outs or variation in volume. I will strongly recommend anyone who needs sound striping- GO LIQUID!

James.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 13, 2009, 10:07 AM:

Its strange as to how variable mag stripe is. I just had Lance Alspuagh record a stereo reel for me, (as, when I want a stereo recording, I go to lance, just about the best anywhere, and he may well be the best!), as I record my own mono's but Lance is the stereo guy ...

This job was a two reel digest that I wanted a stereo job on, both reels same vintage, and yet, the sound on the first half was crystal clear, super sharp and superb sound, and the second reel, while better than any Derann stereo, (I haven't had much luck with Derann's stereo releases), there was a noticeable loss in quality. Lance did his best with the stripes, but there can be that much of a difference, and I know that Lance is top notch.

By the way, I highly recommend Lance for your stereo re-records.
He really is great!

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on May 13, 2009, 11:28 AM:

I always prefer the thick stripe to the thin gray stripe you see today. The reason is that I believe it protects the film better in that the film is lifted above rollers higher and away from any slightly worn/danger areas. Even if you constantly clean and check the projector there are always some places you miss or are hard to deal with. Just my opinion.

Graham S [Smile]

Posted by Jim Carlile (Member # 812) on May 14, 2009, 02:22 AM:

The Kodak stripe was a paste that was laid down and then polished. It's the best I've seen anywhere. Agfa F5 is a laminate, but I'm not sure how their prestripe was set up.

Posted by Simon Wyss (Member # 1569) on May 14, 2009, 11:40 AM:

If it's got to be magnetic stripes then polyester tape on polyester base film, and this is done by Fipra of Berlin, Germany. Mr. Pohlmann has found a way to glue that together. I find it brilliant, polyester will not shrink (almost nothing). He does it in 16mm, probably in 8mm, too.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on May 14, 2009, 12:27 PM:

The pre-striped single 8 film stocks from Fuji were superb. They gave superbly rounded recordings with no dropouts at all. For Package Movies the Kodak Laminated stripe was superb.

Kev.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 14, 2009, 03:09 PM:

It fascinates me that thirty year old stripes tend to yeild better re-recordings than the recent stripes.

The balance stripes really seem to be the problem, especially with stereo recordings. The main stripe will have a truly stellar sound and then the balance stripe will really bring down the sudio quality. Most of my stereo prints I won't even play in stereo.

The recording I had Lance do shows this problem. The main stripe has a near DVD quality sound with extremely low hiss and incredibly sharp, as he records quite loud, (GREAT!) but the balance stripe has a lot of hiss and muddled sound.

Lance, in his experience, stated that these recent German releases are notorious for having stellar image quality but highly undesireable sound, not that you can't get a good record on them, but the mag stripe quality is so variable.

Still, even with my fussing, I am also extremely thankful to even see super 8 still produced! We still even have mag stripe?
EXCELLENT!

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on May 14, 2009, 05:25 PM:

Osi, I have found the opposite where the latest German prints are concerned. I have been able to get some great recordings on their stripe both main and balance. I have found the strip both consistent and high quality. I am also able to get some really good recordings on the Derann Grey stripe providing the stripe is consistent and not patchy.

Up untill the time when we found this problem with the GS1200 Capacitor I too got very variable results but since changing this capacitor and setting my machine up as per the manual I now find I can get decent recordings on most stripes.
The capacitor altered the recording oscillator frequency which meant the recording circuits were not running optimally.

This begs the question as to whether its the stripes or the age of some machines in use?

Kev.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 14, 2009, 06:31 PM:

Kevin,

Could you send me the specs or the replacing of the capacitor as that may help Lances recordings, as, perhaps that may be the problem with Lances machines. He too uses GS1200's for his recordings.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on May 14, 2009, 06:41 PM:

Osi, email me direct and I will send you some pics along with the value etc. Its a high voltage type which is not too easy to get hold of but I know a source [Wink]

and its not too far away from you [Big Grin]

Kev.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on May 15, 2009, 03:26 AM:

What I always did when I re-recorded tracks was to first clean the film thoroughly. Any dirt on the film will cause dropouts, and you particularly don't want that happening on recording. I used FilmGuard because it kept the tracks from shedding during the recording and playback process.

Next I would record some pink noise onto the track. Then using a RTA I would see what the losses were upon playback, and adjust input EQ to compensate. This took a few attempts, but I was generally able to get things such that playback was amazingly flat...and yes sometimes the input EQ settings varied from reel to reel as this was dependent on the actual mag track itself. By handling the re-recording in this manner, I was also able to better balance the frequency response between the main and the balance stripe for better Dolby Pro Logic steering.

THEN it came time to actually do the recording.

A favorite option of mine was to use dbx type II noise reduction. This basically eliminated the hiss from Super 8 and gave amazingly clear highs, without compromising the low end. [Big Grin]

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on May 15, 2009, 02:37 PM:

That's an excellent method... and I DO have a DBX outboard unit at the back of the closet. I used to make dbx encoded VHS tapes back in the day.

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