8mm Forum: Castle Box Error

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Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on May 15, 2009, 09:11 AM:

I recently won "War Of The Planets" on Ebay. I went hard for this title because I rarely see it in S8S (normally all you see is the STD 8 Silent versions). It comes in the typical Andy Warhol-style U/8 packaging. Beneath the "Planets" title are the words "From This Planet Earth". Now here is a Universal title and the same studio's Home Movie Division released a 400'/800' version and yet on the 200' version box art they get the source title wrong. Well, word on the street is that some of the execs at U/8 were dope fiends which explains the psychadelic packaging (I have always hated it) and why they couldn't even get the titles to their own product correct. Not to mention that with nearly every repackaged A&C and Horror title - the spray-painted still on the covers was from an entirely different movie ("A&C Meet Jekyll And Hyde" has a still from "Meet The Invisible Man" on the cover - "Creature Walks Among Us" uses a still from "Revenge"). I have absolutely nothing positive to say about U/8. Their heads were up their bums and the quality simply stunk. I wouldn't be surprised if Universal intentionally kept shooting themselves in the foot in an ongoing effort to sabotage (from within) the entire home movie division so they could write it off later. You set your own business on fire to claim it as a deduction later. You see it every day on Wall Street.

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on May 15, 2009, 03:51 PM:

the most disappointing U8 400 footer to me, although it had the great cover publicity shot, was ABBOTT&COSTELLO MEET FRANKENSTEIN. The Castle 200' was much better in my opinion.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on May 15, 2009, 09:52 PM:

How is the 400'er of "This Island Earth"? Is it any improvement over "Planets" other than the color which I'm sure by now is beet red?

Posted by Marshall Crist (Member # 1312) on May 15, 2009, 11:05 PM:

Yeah, I always wondered if they bothered to include the Metaluna mutant in the 400' reel. He wasn't in the 200'.

Posted by Kurt Gardner (Member # 440) on May 15, 2009, 11:28 PM:

As a collector of super 8mm in the 1970s when U8 took over from Castle, I must say in their defense that the "Andy Warhol" art was created to attract audiences that were burned out by the syndication of the old films on TV stations all across the country and the tired old Castle box art that could be found at Kmarts, camera shops and drug stores everywhere.

Keep in mind that Universal condensations represented a high watermark of their time (Columbia had cheesy narration and Ken Films were touch and go). Meanwhile, Universal did a truly magnificent job of telescoping its films; most famously, "Jaws" was distilled into seven memorable minutes and timed with its release into theatres (contributing, I think, to its status as the "first blockbuster"). And U8 offered two of its films in 3D as well as the Howard Hughes productions )"Scarface," "Hell's Angels," etc.) in full-length versions when such things were unheard of, except by Blackhawk and public domain operations likes Niles Film Products.

I agree, the subtitle "This Planet Earth" is a careless mistake, probably created by an overburdened designer, but even Castle had its problems. As pointed out in another thread in this forum, both "Bride of Frankenstein" and "Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein" feature the same shot of Glenn Strange gesturing placatingly into the upper right corner of the box (either Elsa Lanchester or the comedy duo, depending). It was a matter of expediency and ease of printing back in the day.

So let's not be too quick to bash U8. Even though most of their prints are pink today, remember the glory!

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on May 16, 2009, 07:31 AM:

I appreciate all of the insights on the Castle / Universal 8 legacy.

I especially agree with Kurt's comments about Universal 8. In some ways, they were a class above the other super 8 companies at that time.

Let's talk about the 1x400 and 2x400 foot digests that were released in the late 70's. Of the several that I own, the editing is just amazing. The scene transitions are smooth, and they always include parts of the beginning and ending credits, which really does give the digests a feeling of completion. Other companies at the time would forfit the credits, thinking it would waste footage, but it would end up giving the digest an "incomplete" feel.

Another thing was the overall quality of the film itself. While films from other companies would tend to be a little "jittery" running through the projector, U-8's would ride through so smoothly. And, as for picture quality, there was never a hint of grain. Its so ironic that the U-8's seem to have the worst problem with turning red, because the prints were so beautiful back then.

As far as the box art on the older releases, I think Kurt pinned it just right. Remember, back in the 70's, the classic Universal horror movies had been on shelves and catalogs for many years, and most people were looking for newer stuff at the time. So re-packaging made sense. Its only now that we recognize the original Castle boxes for the beauty that they are. Also, as stated, Universal horror movies were on T.V. ALL THE TIME back then, so they werent as collectable as they are today.

The problem I did have with U-8, however, was some of the choices of what they released and didn't release. But, that could be said for any of the companies, and its really just a matter of taste.

Great discussion. Input, anyone?

James.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on May 16, 2009, 02:10 PM:

As I've said countless times, the Castle boxes were/are the epitome of poster art, and well-deserve their rightful space in ephemra collecting - The U-8 covers were almost distorted xeroxes, awkward to maintain because I simply hated the 'clamshell' look - The 5X5 cardboard novelties displayed superb color renderings which rival the better paper collectibles, I say. I've stuck to and remained steadfastly loyal to Castle Films for that reason, and the fact that all the Universal releases looked so darn good, cause the pre-print was all from their own vaults - Same for Blackhawk, they obtained only the finest and I swear by their quality for what they released - People tell me all the time I was right in collecting these little boxes (many laughed, waste of time and all, now it's a different tune they sing) And to them I say 'Told Ya' - They are excellent films though, aren't they? - Great time to show them on a summer evening - Shorty

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 16, 2009, 07:13 PM:

I reiterate everything stated thus far. Castle/Universal 8 did a very good job with nearly all of thier releases. Sometimes a release might have come out due to good box office, which would perhaps bring them to assume that there was an audience for them already. In most cases, they were right.

The editing (I think) was just about the best, but the image quality was absolutely great. I think the three highest companies for quality control, (and, as Joe stated, due to thier own negatives being used) was Castle/U8, Disney, and Blackhawk, each the number one in thier particular niche.

Disney, animation ...
U8, Monster classics and others ...
Blackhawk, for early classics.

Though MGM's titles were great, they tended to have a rather grainy quality overall. Ken films suffered the same grainy fate as well.

One of my favorite 2X400 digests to this date, is "JAWS".

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on May 17, 2009, 08:05 AM:

I'll give a nod to KEN, the Marvel Cartoons are quite excellent, even with the old comicbook-style art and grainy effect - Boxes are also top-notch - As a fact of matter, the 400' KEN releases had stunning paintings on them, almost rivaling Castle

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on May 17, 2009, 09:03 PM:

Brad & Marshall,

The 400' "This Island Earth" is a quite a good edit (I'll do a review shortly). Yes, the Metaluna Mutant's scenes are included and strangely enough I've heard that many prints of this title still have excellent color.

Doug

Posted by Kurt Gardner (Member # 440) on May 17, 2009, 09:51 PM:

I agree that as ephemera today the Castle boxes are much more collectable, but if you think about the marketing intent behind the "Warhols," the large duotoned faces, they were much more '70s. And if you put the boxes up on a shelf side by side, they could almost serve as a pop art display.

While we're discussing other companies, I think the Marketing Film packages are awesome; the three-parters with different pictures on each one, the heavy gatefold cardboard construction with the plastic insert...and the colors are holding up, too!

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on May 18, 2009, 08:28 AM:

I do agree that the COLOR U8 films were fairly well edited...but not with the creativity of the old Castles.. Almost all straight cuts of a print...no dissolves or wipes or fancy sound editing...sharpness varied GREATLY.... but they did give us 800 footers which were nice. The Black and White ones however....quality all over the place...dark, light..dupey...fuzzy...sharp....and very very obviously not done from negatives like the old Castles. A and C meet the Keystone Kops....horrid...dark...not nearly as sharp as the one reeler Have Badge. Their Raven edited job was also horrid..along with the print quality. Some of the black and whites SEEMED sharp due to the contrast fromi their being basically dupes of what looked like 16mm prints... When the lab got it halfway right, they are acceptable...but project the same footage from the same feature side by side...Castle vs U8....and you can really tell what you are missing. That's my opinion from my experiences. A& C in Society....just two Castles put together....and again, project them side by side...and ugh... !!

Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on May 19, 2009, 12:32 PM:

Totally agree with Kurt regarding Universal 8. With the exceptions of some of the A&C 400 footers in which they basically spliced two 200 footers together, I found their 400-foot (or should I say 370-foot?) condensations much more satisfying than their 200-foot brethren. That's not a slap against Castle's expert editing job on the 200 footers, but I found 17 minutes to be a much better length than 7 or 8 minutes. And, frankly, many of the 17-minute condensations are better than the source feature film itself (such as DRACULA, the MUMMY sequels, etc.).

While I appreciate the "boxes" argument in terms of Castle vs. Universal 8, for me it's a moot point. All things considered, the proof is in the pudding -- that is, the quality of the film digest itself -- and I've never felt that Universal 8 got its just credit. And let's be honest -- there aren't many Super 8 releases from that time frame that really stood out in terms of print quality any way.

If I have a problem with Universal 8, it's with their later releases, particularly the "2x400"-foot digests that interestingly enough could somehow fit on a 600-foot reel! I also found the editing on their later releases (e.g., BLUES BROTHERS, etc.)to be extremely "choppy" -- but that's probably because the halcyon days of Super 8 were about to draw to a close and Universal 8 probably sensed that and didn't worry as much about the quality of the editing.

But overall, I always jump at the chance to acquire a Universal 8 400 footer of any of the Universal monster classics.

[ May 19, 2009, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: John Hourigan ]

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