8mm Forum: Kodak discontinues Kodachrome

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Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on June 23, 2009, 11:22 AM:

Kodak has announce the discontinuation of Kodachrome, supplies are expected to last until fall and Dwayne's will offer processing until 2010.

(Los Angeles Times, Tuesday, June 23, 2009)

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on June 23, 2009, 01:01 PM:

Sad indeed,

but one could see this thing coming, as Kodachrome, an admittedly great product, is probably an odd bird in Kodak´s portfolio of products. Sales are probably too low to justify keeping up production, especially in this bad economy.

When both production and processing end, it´s really the last nail in the coffin. [Frown]

Cheers
Lars

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on June 23, 2009, 02:36 PM:

quote:
Dwayne's will offer processing until 2010

Just looked on their website and they will process it until end of December 2010 web page Good news I would say, We should all thank Dwanes for their continued support.

Graham S

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on June 23, 2009, 02:49 PM:

I think they were being elusive on purpose. It will likely depend on the amount of film returned for processing. K14 or whatever the current process is, is both costly and complicated to mix. The batches run for a long time but a fresh mix costs a lot and has chemicals only made by Kodak.

I would hazard a guess the first month that fewer than say "x" number of carts and rolls of film are sent in will trigger the shut down.

Once Kodak stops making the various color couplers, and the processor runs out, it's over. In fact Kodak may have already stopped making them and coating film so we could be running on the last tank right now.

John

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on June 23, 2009, 03:09 PM:

John, the most amazing aspect of Kodachrome to me is, that as incredible a process that it was, it was invented by two musicians! [Eek!]

Yes musicians- not scientists. What was that all about?

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on June 23, 2009, 03:53 PM:

John, Im a bit optimistic as regards the Kodachrome processing as it may (i hope) overrun into 2011. Im sure Kodak still has a lot of chemicals in back stock, enough to supply dwanes for years and may supply Dwanes with fresh chemicals if need be. The fact that Dwanes is still processing Kodachrome Super 8 shows there is still a reasonable demand for it and they still get sound carts in (which Kodak stopped years ago). Yes the processing of Kodachrome will get less and less but I think that month 'x' is hopefully a year or more away. A lot of this is hope but I think there is still plenty more Kodachrome worldwide to keep Dwanes busy for at least 2 years.

Graham S

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on June 23, 2009, 05:16 PM:

Perhaps we should all consider buying a couple of carts from Wittners -they sell re-cartridged Kodachrome- film something and send to Dwayne´s [Roll Eyes]

In the best case we prolong this thing a year or so, worst case we wind up with a few more nice up-to-date images on Kodachrome

Cheers
Lars

Posted by Hans van der Sloot (Member # 494) on June 23, 2009, 05:31 PM:

Hi Lars, did you receive my mail?
Hans

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on June 24, 2009, 12:54 AM:

yes I got it, will respond soon

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on June 24, 2009, 03:07 PM:

The original Kodachrome processing machines were very long devices running mostly in the dark (due to the process). I saw the machines at Palo Alto back in the late 1960s and they were thrity or forty feed long and the chemical mix was a thousand gallons. The super 8 machines ran that single width at high speed for the time for a couple hundred feet per minute (today eastman color positive machines routinely run 1000 feet per minutes).

The other machine I saw was at Technicolor when they were in the color print and process business in Seattle during the World's Fair and it was a Pako machine, slower than the Kodak machine but still requiring a lot of chemistry and men to run it.

In the 1980s or 1990s, Kodak came out with a "baby" Kodachrome machine which was much smaller and slower than the machines at CP&P (color print and process) and I would guess that's what's running at Dwayne's.

This decision was made some time ago and since we know very little of when and how Kodak makes film, I'd bet that they have carefully allocated film and chemistry to time out with this announcement. No other company every made the color developer or coupling agents used in Kodachrome. No doubt the patents have expired, but the costs of the chemicals for the coupling agents back in the 1960-70 was around $2,500 for five pounds of the magenta coupler. Now that lasted a long time in the tank, but you can't expect anyone to manufacture more of these complicated organic compounds.

As for Leopold & Leopold, their first color process used honey and carefully timing viscous soultion treating the film to get to the various layers--that was all changed with the coupling agents and the individual re-exposure lamps for each color going through the process. Kodachrome is a fascinating process and once you study it you can understand why bees can fly inspite of the laws of physics!

Even when 3m bought the old patents for Kodachrome 1, they still had to buy all their chemistry from Kodak and when Technicolor had the 35mm monopac negative back in the 1940s, they had Kodak develop the film since it was in short Kodachrome. (This gets into a long patent/licensing agreement between Technicolor and Kodak on the width of film and who could make and market the material for motion picture use).

John

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on June 24, 2009, 03:30 PM:

Looks like Id better use up my Kodachrome ASAP just in case [Roll Eyes]

Graham S

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 24, 2009, 03:36 PM:

Thanks for another great post John. They are always appreciated.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on June 24, 2009, 03:36 PM:

I have about 5 films shot in Kodachrome that just need titling, but I've put it off because I really hate doing it.

Just going out shooting a movie is as much fun as going on a bender: unfortunately titling is like the hangover!

Guess the hangover is coming soon!

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on June 25, 2009, 02:35 AM:

Yes I agree, thanks john for another terrific post! [Smile]

As to the Kodachrome processes, I´ve had a lot of personal experience with them since I worked at Kodak here in Stockholm a couple of summers when I was still in school. Back then (early eighties) Kodak had a huge plant here and processed enormous amounts of stills film, along with super 8 and 16mm. To a movie-struck kid it was heaven, as you (as employee) could buy Kodak products at a discount in the in-house shop. I bought so much I pretty much wound up working for free [Big Grin]

We had the big, older Kodachrome machines, and they were in total darkness -in fact it was pretty depressing to go to work on a beautiful summer morning, spend the whole day in total darkness, and then go home in the evening dusk [Big Grin]

Anyway, this whole shut-down process has been an ongoing affair during the last 25 years or so; First a couple of the Kodachrome machines were shut down, as super8, 35mm and 16mm could be run in the same machine. Next Kodak shut down Kodachrome processing in scandinavia, focusing everything to the german/swiss(?) lab that shut down a few years ago. Then Kodak stopped developing altogether in scandinavia, merely stocking and selling product from this plant, that continued roughly until the mid-nineties. Now Kodak merely has a sales orginization here in Stockholm, stocking some product and importing the rest within a few days if you ask for anything less common. Obviously this only requires a couple of office suites.

The huge Kodak plant still stands, but it´s an empty shell, a ghostly abandoned building. I´m sure the building itself or the real estate has some value or it would have been torn down years ago.

Cheers
Lars

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 25, 2009, 01:30 PM:

I have nothing but praise for KodaChrome film, and the few roles I shot of it look as good today as when I shot. I had (still have) an anamorphic scope lense and shot all my Super 8 home movies in cinemascope, and it was almost shocking as to how good, how sharp that film STILL looks today.

I think I'll project some of those scope images of Yellowstone tonight!

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on June 25, 2009, 07:26 PM:

Very interesting reading John and Lars you both have a wealth of knowledge and would be an excellent subject for a book.

Last week I ordered five more rolls of Kodak slide film, I still use it in my Canon FTB/SLR, takes very good photos. Although digital is the thing these days I still believe, that to capture an image that one day in the future you want to look back on, then it has to be shot on film. I have always preferred Kodak in both Super8 and slide, its a real shame that this is happening.

I have a 16mm print of a short film about 20 minutes long, made by the NZ National Film Unit around 1959 in the South Island. It contains some stunning scenery and was shot on Kodachrome, the colours are truly amazing. I run this film every so often, its hard to imagine that its 50 years old and still looks great.

Graham.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on June 26, 2009, 05:00 AM:

The massive Asia/South Pacific Kodak HQ here in Coburg, a suburb of Melbourne, is just now being turned into a new community. All the plants and warehouses are gone, but the main high-rise office building remains.

It produced and processed Kodachrome for decades. At the peak I understand they had eight Super 8 Kodachrome processing machines. I lived in the suburb next to it and could see the plant from my bedroom window - across the road from it was a drive-in theatre that run Eastman 35mm print stock in its projectors!

As Lars mentioned, when it closed a few years ago Australia turned to just importing stock from other countries.

My father shot mostly Kodachrome slides, but also Standard 8 and Super 8 Kodachrome. I shot thousands of feet of Kodachrome myself on Super 8 and 16mm. I will miss it.......better shoot those last few roles.

David

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on June 27, 2009, 03:56 AM:

I went to process some stills film the other day and noticed in the store they stocked a lot of different stills film, including reversal. And the proprietor told me that "those who are REALLY into stills know that to get colour-slide-film-quality out of a digital stills camera, you need equipment in the 7000 Euro-range" so there was still demand for slide film. [Smile]

Cheers
Lars

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 28, 2009, 04:04 AM:

Can anyone tell the the postal address of Dwayne's
I still have one last reel of sound kadak to use and i wouldnt want to waste it?

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on July 10, 2009, 07:48 PM:

The link to Kodak's announcement is here, and interestingly enough, the homepage for Dwayne's Photo presently announces the demise.

For those of you who are less sentimental and more cynical than I about such things, you might enjoy the Jim Mullen "Village Idiot" column saying goodbye to Kodachrome, which is archived online at The Jewish World Review. Don't expect any technical sympathies here -- he clearly doesn't know the difference between Kodachrome and any other film, let alone reversal vs. negative.

Happy (sad) reading. And get those old Kodachrome rolls cleaned out of your freezers. I'm happy to volunteer my services if anyone needs help using some up!

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