8mm Forum: Empire Strikes Back Digests

This is topic Empire Strikes Back Digests in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004660

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 03, 2009, 10:13 PM:

Hey, I've got a couple of questions about the Empire Strikes Back digests ...

1. Did Marketing or any other German company release any parts 1 or 2 of "Empire". I have never seen any.

2. Does anybody have a COMPLETELY unfaded part 1?

The reason for the second question is that, while part 2 has absolutely NO fade whatsoever, part 1 does, but it may be due to the negative. Both parts are KODAK SP, but I have noticed that the beginning credit sequence has perfect blacks to it, but as soon as the first shot (Star Destroyer) begins, the space is a very dark brown and not black.

What is interesting, is that the second big space scene, (the Millenium Falcons escape) the space is an even lighter brown! It actually seems to be more faded in the last five minutes and yet, as soon as the "The End" title hits the screen on part 1, we are immediately back to a pure black.

Has anybody seen this problem on they're part 1?

I had thought of trying to find a completely unfaded part 1, but every one I have seen on ebay has had much worse fade.

(it doesn't help when a number of auctions over a period of months stupidly used the same screenshots from another guys auction of a print that was faded. How stupid is that? They're print might have been completely unfaded, but they represented it with faded print images!)

I think I might have lucked on a nearly pristine print and better hold onto it.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on July 04, 2009, 01:43 AM:

Osi, UFA released both Empire Strikes Back reels (same edit as Ken).
I have an unfaded part one from Ken's last batch (december 82).

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 04, 2009, 09:57 AM:

Good to hear about the UFA release.

Really, all I'd like to find, I suppose, is one of those December printings!

I wonder if the negatives for the "Return of the Jedi" release were destroyed, or if someone owns them somewhere? If memory serves me, (it usually serves me wrong), an edit for super 8 was created for "Return of the Jedi" in digest form, but Super 8 had so died by then that it was scraped.

Could you verify that Doug?

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on July 04, 2009, 10:02 AM:

I heard that rumor too about ROTJ.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 04, 2009, 10:07 AM:

Jean, (hey, you must be on line!) ...

It's a definite possibility. If Ken films were still doing printings as of DEcember 1982 (and you have verified that), then it is entirely possible that ROTJ was prepared for Digest form, as Ken Films editors would have recieved a print of the film for editing either shortly before release or right at that time which was 1983.

Does anybody know who were the editors for Ken films at this time and if so, if they are still alive and kicking? I'd love to find out!

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on July 04, 2009, 10:10 AM:

Osi,

According to Barry Atwood, Ken Films were told that they could have a 2 x 400' extract from "Return of the Jedi" but Lucas Films wanted $200,000 plus royalties. Ken decided against it. They never got to the edit juncture.

Doug

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on July 04, 2009, 10:23 AM:

I was reading in some previous posts that they wanted too much for releasing a digest, something like $100,000.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 04, 2009, 10:24 AM:

Damn. That answers THAT question. Thanks Doug!

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on July 04, 2009, 10:38 AM:

Larry,

$100,00 per each 400' digest!

Doug

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 04, 2009, 01:06 PM:

I guess the only effort towards a "released digest", so to speak, was that fella down in LA, who released ROTJ as a 3X400ft, but it really only consisted of reel 1 and the last two reels of the feature, and I believe our own Doug either has or had a copy of this "digest"?

It was also in scope.

By the way, it is of interest that, while Ken films did release part 2 of STAR WARS in scope and flat, "The Empire Strikes back"
was only released in a flat version. Such a shame.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on July 05, 2009, 11:50 AM:

Hey Doug,
Who's Barry Atwood - did he work for KEN back in the day?

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on July 05, 2009, 12:06 PM:

Brad,

Barry is the fine gentleman who runs Independent 8, which can be found at http://www.bfcc.biz/.

Doug

Posted by John Skujins (Member # 1515) on July 08, 2009, 12:55 PM:

A related question: My ESB volume 2 doesn't sound as crisp as my volume 1. The sound is clear but a little muffled, or more toward the bass end. It was like that when it was brand new (I bought it new in the early '80s). I always wondered if it was just my copy, or if they all sounded like that. Anybody know? How's the sound on yours?

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on July 08, 2009, 03:31 PM:

My ESB - part 2, does have more bass than part 1, but sounds very good on my print.

I actually re-recorded the sound on ESB - part 1, because there was not enough bass, and was a little distorted at times. I re-recorded it in stereo from a VHS print, with excellent results. I had originally planned to re-record part 2 into stereo as well, but the sound was very good, so I just transferred the main side to the balance track, so I wouldn't have to switch from "stereo" mode to "mono" mode half way through the combined digests.

James.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on July 09, 2009, 09:41 AM:

"I have an unfaded part one from Ken's last batch (december 82)."

Jean-Marc: I was curious whether prints from this batch can be identified from leader markings, or did you happen to know that the film was from this batch? I was surprised to spot that a late Ken release I own ('The Rose') is on Agfa stock so I wondered if this would apply to any low fade Ken prints.

Does anyone happen to know if Ken would have printed several other batches in 1982, and whether others also included low fade prints?

[ July 09, 2009, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on July 11, 2009, 12:03 PM:

Adrian, I'm not home right now but, yes, they can be identified as the leader clearly states "Dec. '82"

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on July 11, 2009, 12:44 PM:

Adrian,

I just sold a Ken feature print of "The Dirty Dozen" that was printed in 12/82 and it still has very good color.

Doug

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2