8mm Forum: super 8 film packaging buy or not

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Posted by Thomas Smith (Member # 1889) on January 11, 2010, 04:33 AM:

i want to start a topic on film packaging i have seen films on
a well known internet site reach hight prices when sold with the original boxes and pictured lables so the question is would
you fellow collectors be willing to pay more, and if yes how much ???? [Confused]

Posted by Christian Bjorgen (Member # 1780) on January 11, 2010, 07:36 AM:

For many collectors, like for instance Gian on the forums here, the original box means almost as much as the reel itself.

I don't care about it, for me it's the reel that matters, I can make artwork myself [Smile]

Posted by Guy Taylor, Jr. (Member # 786) on January 11, 2010, 07:58 AM:

For me the original box is important on the older movie digests from companies like Ken Films, Castle, Disney, etc. The graphic art in often very nice. Castle overall was the best but in 1977 when they changed to Universal 8 the artwork was not as good.

As for newer and current stuff, I'm mostly just interested in the film.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on January 11, 2010, 08:22 AM:

If anyone has been dedicated to original packaging, it's me - Say I notice a choice film I want without box, yes I'll still buy it (Carton can come along later in another form). There is information/research to be had on original boxes, so I eagerly seek the earliest releases from Breakspear, Sterling, Excel, Metro, Novelty, Carmel, Movieland Int'l, Powell, Mountain, Walton, Griggs and the such - When a collector finds an original toy, such as the Mickey Mouse or model kits, the original box has as much merit as the figure (if not top value) - Prices have been had just for original cardboard emphrema, and related advertising - Marx Ben-Hur, Wagon Train and other playsets have commanded many times over, in particulat for the rare (albeit, scarce) box - While film boxes aren't of this calibre, they are of value and some people scour the pages and shows just to acquire mint ones - You have to admit, the drawings/renederings are many are quite excellent, practically constituting mini-posters, and should be heralded as such - To make a short story long, the artwork of years ago will never compare to the present because the creative process was faithful and was accomplished with a keen, more aesthetic eye to the casual buyer. Now it's nostalgia, vintage (a word I can't tolerate much) You can always find a better upgrade for a print, but it is darn-near hard to upgrade a box, not impossible, but remember that these were often disposed of while the films were kept, till they too were shown to ribbons and tossed away - I've collected films over forty years and have maintained a sharp awareness to the packaging they come in. Besides which, they look so colorful and appealing on shelves - My seven cents on it, Shorty

Posted by Thomas Smith (Member # 1889) on January 11, 2010, 08:52 AM:

i started this topic because i think if possible films
look much better on the shelf in there original boxes
the early derann boxes have fantastic covers

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on January 11, 2010, 09:30 AM:

The 400' shorts are pretty nice, but the artwork on the 400' KEN run are far better

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on January 11, 2010, 09:37 AM:

Except for features, I would probably not buy a film if it didn't come with the original artwork.

Doug

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 11, 2010, 09:44 AM:

If plain white packaging was good enough for the Beatles, it's good enough for me!

Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on January 11, 2010, 09:53 AM:

Absolutely interested in 'genuine' boxes just when buying shorts, featurettes or 200/400ft movies originally issued with artwork (Blackhawk, Walt Disney Home Movies, Walton etc.). No box=no purchase.

Not interested at all if full features come without original box: a friend of mine also collector ( Boxing movies ) makes them for me.

The reasons why I like Luigi's boxes more than Derann's, just to make an example, is that Luigi's are solidly built.
Another good one is that most of the movies I have in my collection were used and were supplied without any box.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 11, 2010, 10:21 AM:

I've got to admit, I'm not as big on originalo packages, unless it is a very old vintage print, (early castle films, for instance), as they have a great vintage look, an extra reminder of days gone by.

In most cases, (as in optical features) I get the film without boxes. Technically, unless Derann released them, optical features didn't have any boxes period! In a few cases, I have recieved some great boxes that were built by collectors themselves. A good example of that was a print I bought of "Crocodile Dundee", which came in a great illustrated box!

Posted by Mark Howard (Member # 870) on January 11, 2010, 12:55 PM:

I'm in the "not too bothered about the box" camp. If my film collection was on display it might be a different matter, but as they're stored in fridges out of sight I don't really care that much. For me its the film that's the important bit.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 11, 2010, 03:12 PM:

Hey Mark! Great to hear there are others who put they're prints on cold storage! A wise precaution!

Posted by Christian Bjorgen (Member # 1780) on January 11, 2010, 03:24 PM:

Osi, what is the best storage condition for prints? I keep them in a room thats usually 10-15 degrees during most of the year, is that OK?

Posted by Mark Howard (Member # 870) on January 11, 2010, 04:17 PM:

Osi, I'm convinced storing my prints in fridges has extended the lifetime of many of my prints. I use frost-free refrigerators and plenty of silica gel bags, just in case any moisture creeps in.

Posted by Paul Spinks (Member # 573) on January 11, 2010, 09:47 PM:

I collect both Super 8 and 16mm films and box art is non existant on the larger guage, just plain brown carboard or plastic and metal cans. Therefore I really don't mind if a super 8 print is in its original box or not. If it is it's quite nice, but it wouldn't preclude me from buying a title without one. It's the film I'm after so I'll take them in Jiffy bags, hatboxes, carrier bags, or bubble wrap. I've even had them turn up wrapped in black bin bags. It doesn't bother me. I have a large collection of new 400ft white card boxes I use when a title I have puchased has no boxes or the originals are really tatty and I put them in them. The 600ft reels go onto brand new plastic Bonum reels and cans( happily I have a load of those as well). Another problem with original boxes is that they sometimes smell of damp or cigarette smoke which isn't very nice.(Better than vinegar though). [Big Grin]

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on January 12, 2010, 05:33 AM:

Depends on the home they (the boxes) come from. I've had several reeking of tobacco. These I place in a brown paper bag with a potpourri selection for about a week, and in no time, they are restored to a pleasant cardboardy-fragrance again. Perhaps this might be a slow-cure towards vinegar - I also carry many white-hinged boxes from Steve at Reel-Image, and they work just fine, Shorty

Posted by Thomas Smith (Member # 1889) on January 13, 2010, 08:58 AM:

hello mark
thats interesting about keeping films in the fridge.
but i dont think i have room for two fridges.

Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on January 13, 2010, 02:00 PM:

Eh eh... I should find room for four, at least. Impossible [Big Grin]

Posted by Mark Howard (Member # 870) on January 13, 2010, 04:48 PM:

Ah Gian, we don't all have the luxury of those beautiful glass cases!

I've just taken delivery of my fifth fridge so the reels can have a little bit of room, and now I've space to acquire some more prints! Thankfully I've a large garage so fridge storage isn't a problem at the moment, and being stuck out there allows me to continue building the collection without the wife seeing how much money I've spent!

Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on January 13, 2010, 04:54 PM:

quote:
without the wife seeing how much money I've spent!

This is another very good reason to store movies in a fridge. Bad boy [Wink]

Posted by Mark Howard (Member # 870) on January 13, 2010, 05:03 PM:

[Big Grin]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 13, 2010, 07:07 PM:

If a film has attractive packaging, I'd certainly pay significantly more if it's in the original box in good condition. I've sometimes bought a second copy just for the box, and then I'd photocopy the box and sell the extra copy in the copied box. Occasionally, I've obtained a used Derann print without the original box, and managed to obtain the correct box or label from Derann.

The original box certainly adds resale value; I've occasionally seen films on eBay sell for crazy amounts to people who don't even have projectors, as they are buying the item as film memorabilia - so the fact that a film is (e.g.) a 200' bw/silent version of 'Ben Hur' is no problem from their point of view! Also, an original box in good shape may be a sign that the film has been looked after and is not (e.g.) a substandard print that Derann put in a plain box as an indication that it wasn't perfect.

I can understand collectors being obsessive about getting films in the boxes, but what baffles me is the collectors who have been fanatical about NOT keeping films in the boxes! E.g. I once bought some films from a guy that kept ALL his films in cases that contained 2 x 800' reels. Some were Techno UFO releases with the nice boxes discarded. If he bought a 600' release, the box and reel were thrown away so that the film could join the rest on his 800' reels! I saw another similar example many years ago in Perry's old shop near Wimbledon. A collector had sold them many 400' releases in identical Bonum cases, with labels featuring the film titles in Letraset. All the nice clamshell cases to films like 'Alien', and the reels, had been thrown away so that he could have a row of identical cases on his shelves! Can anyone understand this?

Posted by David Michael Leugers (Member # 166) on January 13, 2010, 10:07 PM:

I never thought much about the boxes before, I usually mounted a film I really liked on a better quality reel and can. I saved the boxes they came in if in good shape. I can see how there is an interest in the original boxes as art and nostalgia. Sorta like the great vinyl album covers compared to a CD...

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on January 14, 2010, 08:42 AM:

I've written about this many times, in Steve's REEL-IMAGE and elsewhere. Even espousing about it to anyone at films shows [Smile]

You have two areas of collecting; emphrema (advertising) and motion pictures (8mm or what have you) - BoxArt is akin to mini-posters, albeit lobby cards, of the film - That is one separate and lively area of collecting which lately commands a premium if in top-condition - The film is the second area, when with intact leader, titles and splice-free, is also a leading commodity - Put them together and you pay accordingly. Like the Aurora Model Kits which were re-proed a while back, they look darn-near gorgeous, however it isn't an exact duplicate. Same with film boxes. I've had and seen many, the mustard isn't cut, though I respect highly the work involved - many dealers/collectors toss away the boxes because they feel those are just for display, not showing like a film - Understand - I became fascinated with original cartons, labels, tags, and all since I was a boy. My aunt said I was more interested in code numbers and box creation than the toy or film itself - Another point is old toys where both the box and product MUST go together. It is inconceivable to have a wind-up robot, American Character, Marx, Disney or other such product-name toy without the rare, illustrateda nd magnificent box it was contained in. many times on Antiques Roadshow, this very idea was brought out. The box adds spice to the pot and makes for an overall collector item. For all those practicalities, the original box and film are as one, and for me will always so be. I had to buy films with out box or even can sometimes, well, that's the way of it on the road, but I then search doggedly for the elusive box to match (sometimes getting an extra print and selling/trading later) - More later have to attend to box maintenance - Shorty

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on January 14, 2010, 10:22 AM:

I prefer the original box, but if I am after a rare title, I'll take it box or not.

David

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on January 14, 2010, 10:27 AM:

So I have also. Have had to lately, it's the only way until a box appears - I have often thought of a book (or at least a well-documented treatise), on the box manufacturers/artists. That alone would comprise a fine companion piece to our libraries - Shorty

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on January 14, 2010, 11:52 AM:

It's no secret that the packaging for me is as important as the film, in some cases more so! I have the collector's gene and consequently my collecting habit has a number of provisos.

I like to collect complete series, ie; all the MGM and Universal 8 400ft releases and the Walton Tom and Jerrys etc. and the film has to come with the original packaging and artwork. White boxes don't interest me and a perfect film in a generic white box is far less appealing to me than a reasonably good film in its original box.

Having said that, the quality and condition of the film is important, of course, and I will often buy a film for the box and then, if necessary, look out for a better copy of the film in a generic box so that I can mate the two together.

My one gripe is that some of the dealers have an unfortunate habit of either putting large and irremovable labels on the boxes or marking them with the films grade in indelible marker. [Frown]

Mike

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on January 14, 2010, 12:38 PM:

Or, writing on the cardboard in black marker or indelible ink, sticky labels, etc - Man, I play box-doctor alot! If the patient isn't up-to-snuff, I regrettably toss it aside and hunt another - I also collect a complete run; Castle's Hopalong Cassidys, Walton/Mountain Edgar Kennedy/Leon Errol (still need someone to email me which titles are in the runs, as I'm confused as to what to look for) - Cheers all, Shorty

Posted by Thomas Smith (Member # 1889) on January 16, 2010, 04:42 PM:

hello does anybody know if powell films release there
films in pictured boxes i cant remmember ?

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