8mm Forum: What is the worst scratching projector made?

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 13, 2010, 04:02 PM:

OK, this ought to be fun!

We've often talked about the kindest projectors to film, but what, in your opinion, is the absolute worst scratching projectors?

The "classic" projector, (I'll explain that later), would be the "Soundstar", it left deep scratches on me precious prints.
Sears projectors were pretty awful as well ...

but the worst all time "projector" I have ever ran into, was a little thing made near the end of Super 8, (classic era). It was a "Bentley" projector. It really wasn't an editor, as it had nothing to edit/plice with. I don't have a picture of it, but it was fashioned after the look of the portable TV's of the late 70's/early 80's. The top would open, and you would place in and thread a 200ft reel (it wouldn't take a 400ft reel) and you would watch the film on a little screen like an editor would have. It didn't use electricity, and you couldn't plug it in. It only took batteries. I suppose they marketed this as being handy. Perhaps you could take it to the mountians and watch movies?

Anyhow, this little projector that I bought scratched films in such a terrible way that I was completely astounded! TERRIBLE!

If anyone has a photo of it, please put it up?

Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on January 13, 2010, 05:08 PM:

I can FOR SURE state the WORST one we had in Italy was the GIOCA ROYAL SOUND 50/N.

The perfect eating-film machine [Mad]

. Loading the movie, you were not even sure if the take-up reel were in a position to make its job (only taking up to 200ft)!
Just joking, now, but this was for sure the WORST projector ever produced in Italy, referring to scratches.

Even less than a toy.

When I was 12 or 13 I had bought and re-sold it (how nasty I was to that poor buyer [Razz]

) in less than one week!

Posted by John Almond (Member # 1782) on January 13, 2010, 05:13 PM:

Is this the one Osi

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 13, 2010, 05:55 PM:

AAAARG!

Yes! THAT'S the film violater!

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on January 14, 2010, 01:37 AM:

Well here in the U.K. (I can't say for the rest of the world) the product name CINEREX still makes me shiver, whatever model came out, they had terrible plastic pathways. I remember way back in 1978 when I was looking round for my first projector, I was shown this nice looking 8mm projector, he could see I might be interested, so he asked me if I would like a demonstration, and I said yes, of course. He had no used prints around, so he got a BRAND NEW & SEALED print of a "Mighty Mouse" cartoon off the shelf, run it through the machine, everything seemed to be going well with his sales pitch, then he said the unthinkable, would I like to see the projector running again, so after re-winding the film, he laced it up, and turned the machine on, and on the same print I had just watched were 2 THICK GREEN LINES down the centre of the picture, well at the time I might have been a bit naieve about 8mm, but not THAT NAIEVE not to see the green lines, and know something was very wrong, so I thanked him for his time, and made a swift exit right, if you know what I mean.

It's funny but my service agent reckons the motors on the CINEREX machines were one of the best made, shame about the rest of the machine!

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on January 14, 2010, 02:33 AM:

I love it Osi, the film eater is a Bentley [Razz]

I hate to say it and especially because of my love for the gauge and the fact that I have like 5 of these projectors but one of the worst offenders I have found might be the Pathe baby because of the rewind design..It seems a good number of the old cassettes have a couple of lines that perfectly match up with the edges on the rewind path..I think the first film I ever projected with one I rewound it and scratched it right off...

There are other 9.5 offenders like the Bolex G3 that if the film slips out of the sprocket, even one frame, it will proceed to gouge a line directly down the center of the reel....I have an otherwise gorgeous print of Vagabond Queen w/ Betty Balfour with aan entire first reel scratched down the middle..... [Frown]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on January 14, 2010, 08:24 AM:

I agree with Dino, Pathe Baby's can be 'reel' scratchers, but we love them anyway!. The brake arm on the Pathe Ace is also responsible for scratching probably thousands of 9.5mm reels, and Pathescope never fixed the problem (which would have been very simple to do) in the 30 year production run of that very popular machine! Pathe's in general are rough on film.
On the 8mm front, the worst scratcher I had was a late model Bell and Howell, although I forget which model it was - certainly NOT the great 606h/Regent

Posted by Guy Taylor, Jr. (Member # 786) on January 14, 2010, 08:56 AM:

GAF dual 8 silent projector.

Other than my toy hand cranked Brumberger; this was the first projector I had as a kid. I purchased it because it was one of the least expensive ones on the market. It was proof that you get what you pay for.

Posted by Chris Batt (Member # 1880) on January 14, 2010, 10:06 AM:

Hey guys n gals [Smile]

I have a Bolex SP8 that I bought via the dreaded e-bay ( [Frown]

) I am new to 8mm movies so I know as much about Projectors as I do the Vatican !! Any kind suggestions as to what Projector would be best for my treasured 8mm movies, and what price should I be looking to pay. My email is sanesurfer@msn.com I can be contacted here to.

Many thanks, Chris [Smile]

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on January 14, 2010, 12:03 PM:

Barry, I also had a Cinerex many years ago and it ruined several of my precious home movies before I realised what was happening. Everything that went through it ended up with scratches the length of the film! [Mad]

I remember the Chinon SP 330 had a reputation for scratching package movies but was fine with camera film. The problem was so bad that Derann reached the point where they wouldn't lend their library prints to anyone with an SP 330.

Chinon were asked to comment as the projector was a current and popular model at the time, they stated in Movie Maker that the tolerances of the gate (which I don't think was side sprung) were so tight that the variations in the width of package movies caused the film to bow in the gate and thus get scratched on it's way through.

Camera film however was fine because it was slit to much tighter tolerances.

Chris, personally I think that Sankyos are the make that have proved themselves kindest to films [Wink]

.

Mike

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on January 14, 2010, 12:12 PM:

I've never owned a Sankyo Mike, but based on your comments over the years I would not hesitate to buy one. Eumig's are also very kind to film, I've never scratched a single frame with my many Eumigs. Can't say the same for the mighty GS1200 though, which definately is prone to scratching if not meticulously maintained. That's what I like about the Eumigs, they are very non-fussy and casual machines.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on January 14, 2010, 12:23 PM:

Paul, I've never owned a Eumig but it is your comments on here over the years that have persuaded me that one day I should. Like you though, I have found that the GS 1200 needs careful watching in the film scratching department. I am fortunate in that one of my GS 1200s was 'modified' before I bought it, probably by Keith Wilton or David Locke and consequently has had all the potential scratch points eliminated. I still don't entirely trust it though...

Mike [Cool]

Posted by John Davis (Member # 1184) on January 14, 2010, 12:33 PM:

I echo the cinerex comment (I have previously called them Cine Wrecks). My Dad bought some projectors in an auction and these included a cinerex, my impression was it was a tidy looking machine - we tried to put a non-valuable film through it and it started to eat the film.
I gave it a new home immediately, the bin (there was no way I would pass this on).
I also had a go on a Raynox, which also scratched film - I'm reluctant to blame the machine as it had obviously had a lot of abuse. It's performance otherwise was below average anyway

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 14, 2010, 01:38 PM:

I would really want to have that Bentley...installed in my Van. [Wink]

Other person will be surprised if knowing a reel is used to play the film.

What do you think? combination between modern car and old technology.

rgds,

Posted by Del Phillipson (Member # 513) on January 14, 2010, 01:42 PM:

It's Cinerex for me, I bought one when I first started work, it got sent back about 4 times before I gave up and got a refund, not before it annihilated my king kong 200" (at the time was my pride and joy) Then bought a trusty Eumig, what a great little machine that was. Del.

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on January 14, 2010, 01:45 PM:

But winbert why would you want to install a "one and done" projector anywhere [Eek!]

You'd have to keep replacing the films you screened.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 14, 2010, 02:33 PM:

I know Dino....

It is similar to my other idea to place 8 track in my van.

I like just anything weird [Wink]

(ps: do you know that there was actually a turntable player for car. It used 7" record. I found one in the internet but I never got one in reality. I'd like to have that one too [Big Grin]

)

cheers,

Posted by Den Brown (Member # 819) on January 14, 2010, 03:13 PM:

No competition: Cinewrecks.

Posted by Darren Payne (Member # 1517) on January 14, 2010, 03:37 PM:

My dads girlfriend a few years back put 2 nice green lines my new print of Q the Winged Serpent on her CHINNON. UGH!

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 14, 2010, 04:26 PM:

quote:
My dads girlfriend a few years back put 2 nice green lines my new print of Q the Winged Serpent on her CHINNON. UGH!

Darren, did you decide to break up with her?

You should... [Big Grin]

cheers,

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on January 14, 2010, 05:43 PM:

Winbert...how can Darren break up with his dad's girlfriend?

Bill

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 14, 2010, 06:50 PM:

whooops my brain is faster than my eyes,

I thought Darren wrote "My girlfriend's dad..."

sorry...

(if you know, as Indonesian, we are writing the opposite, similar to French)

OK Darren, did you ask your Dad to break up with her.... [Big Grin]

cheers,

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on January 14, 2010, 07:14 PM:

No problem...just wanted to clarify!

As for this topic I would have to agree with Guy.

GAF dual 8 silent projector from around 1967. Mom and Dad bought with camera to film the new family...me! I still have for sentimental reasons but man did I tear up some of the family films as well as my own stuff I shot as a teenager. It's hard to see what's going on under the scratches on some of 'em. Although I wasn't cleaning the film path to much either so some of it is my fault!

Bill

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on January 15, 2010, 12:41 AM:

My parents bought a Montgomery Ward dual-8 silent projector to show home movies they shot in the late 60s. That projector was comprised of one item...the claw to pull down each frame one after another. That was it! No sprockets, no rollers!

ALL of the family's home movies are insanely scratched to hell and back up until the time I got into 8mm and got a Chinon silent dual-8 for Christmas at some young age. The Montgomery Ward projector was retired at that point, and oddly enough the scratching stopped.

I found a picture on the web:

Here is the link with more pictures of the monster.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 15, 2010, 03:47 AM:

That looks like a Gioca Silent which was another right royal horror. Look at the similarity between this and the sound version at the top of this thread.

Kev.

Posted by John Skujins (Member # 1515) on January 15, 2010, 02:56 PM:

Winbert - Here's the projector you wanted for your van! Tell us how it works out!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Be ntley-BX-11-super-8-movie-projector-built-in-screen_W0QQitemZ270514796853QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3efbf03935

...and here's one that plays "tapes" [Big Grin]

http://cgi.ebay.com/BENTLEY-BX-11-SUPER-8-HOME-MOVIE-PROJECTOR_W0QQitemZ170431702843QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27ae85673b

[ January 16, 2010, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: John Skujins ]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 15, 2010, 03:17 PM:

[Big Grin]

Posted by Douglas W. Warren (Member # 2159) on August 15, 2010, 02:35 PM:

I found one of the Bentley projectors along with a matching Super-8 camera for sale at a pawn shop in the mid 1980's. No wonder it was selling so cheap,as others have mentioned it ate film with much gusto. I put a copy of Ken Films "The Sands of Iwo Jima" through it and John Wayne wasn't killed by a sniper,but by the hungry jaws of the Bentley! [Big Grin]

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on August 17, 2010, 08:14 AM:

Guy, ....I also started collecting in 1958...or 9..with that hand cranked Brumberger. It destroyed film..but I loved that machine..and used it for years before my parents bought me an actual motorized machine. My first films..which I ran over and over and over ....on that Brumberger were just filled with black lines, but the picture was so dim and small that you could hardly tell...and I don't think it ever put any white emulsion scratches on my little 50 Castle films.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on August 18, 2010, 12:20 AM:

Brad, your M/W projector sure does look alot like my GAF Dual-8 unit from back in the early-mid 70s. To it, it loves to munch and crunch fine celluloid specimens. I still use it, but I try to keep it meticulously clean and only run it sparingly. No problems so far, but back in the day....Wow, it showed no mercy.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 18, 2010, 03:48 AM:

I had a bell and Howeel filmosonic, i put one film through it and got one very thick green scratch on the right side. I've never since touch B&H 8mm only 16. [Wink]

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