8mm Forum: Elmo design flaw?

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Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 18, 2011, 08:36 AM:

I've rarely if ever seen this flaw discussed, so I wondered if others agree. Over the years, I've owned 6 Elmo Super 8 sound projectors (5 different models) and at least 3 of them would at least sometimes scratch films when run in reverse. This was not the result of wear, it was liable to happen right from the start even when the projector was brand new. In one instance, the projector would more or less always do this, whilst with the others it was more unpredicatable and perhaps depended on the exact form of the lower loop. The scratches when this happens are not a continuous line, they are quite bad emulsion marks on the right side of the picture, not completely straight, maybe covering about half of the height of the frame. I suspect that they result from the film hitting against the curved piece of plastic to the right of the film, in-between the bottom of the gate and the sound head. I've found this even with an early 1990s ST-180, so I'm surprised that Elmo never fully eradicated the problem.

Obviously, most people don't normally run films in reverse, but it's worth keeping in mind if while you're watching a film, you answer the 'phone and then reverse the projector to see what you missed. I did this recently with an Elmo I'd never properly checked out in reverse, and I was grateful that it was a film of very little value!

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on January 18, 2011, 07:31 PM:

I have scratched film running in reverse on my ST1200 only once. It was when I lost the top loop and the film was pulled tight against the plastic curved piece right below where the loop would be. It was some original footage and I only ran it in reverse for a few seconds....when I saw the loop disappear I stopped it....but it was to late. I was so angry after I saw the damage I couldn't even watch the footage for a while.

No more rewind.

Bill [Frown]

Posted by Joseph Banfield (Member # 2082) on January 23, 2011, 01:37 PM:

I can not speak for anyone else here but when I answer the telphone, I turn my projector off to be able to hear the person on the other end clearly!

Personally, I would never run a film of mine through the projector in reverse, even they though are designed to do that, which in itself is a complete mystery as to why and for what purpose, since few, if any, sound nearly as smooth in reverse...that is already a clue why it should not be done. I am sure that there are some that are smooth in reverse, I have never seen this myself in actual practice...not even with 16mm machines! Just my two cents on reverse projection.

Posted by Alexander Lechner (Member # 1548) on January 23, 2011, 03:06 PM:

quote:
... which in itself is a complete mystery as to why and for what purpose ...

I can tell you a purpose: it makes kids laugh without end; I had a film running backwards in a Bolex 18-5 and they wanted to see it again and again and again and they would laugh more every time. Didn't do any damage to the film.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 23, 2011, 09:21 PM:

If you need to answer the 'phone while the projector is running, it could be risky stopping it; in some such situations (perhaps depending on the projector and how long it had been running) you could risk the part of the film that's in the gate being warped by heat.

Reverse projection facilities do have practical purposes. I'm sure that people who record soundtracks on their own films, or who are re-recording a cut-down in stages frequently use reverse projection to check recorded sections - they wouldn't want to start again from the beginning each time. And before a show, I'll often use the leader to focus and then reverse the film so that the sound is stable by the time the first frame appears.

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