8mm Forum: Sound stripe on new polyester prints?

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Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on January 25, 2011, 05:16 AM:

Reading on another thread that recent prints of German origin are available on polyester instead of acetate.

Anyone confirm what sort of sound stripe they have? Very difficult to post-stripe polyester as our friends in Dudley are very much aware.

Surely it can't be laminate is it??

Posted by Joerg Polzfusz (Member # 602) on January 25, 2011, 05:31 AM:

Hi,

if you don't mind Ingo Reinsdorf (Germany, machine is broken again and won't be repaired due to the lack of demand) and Fuji (Japan, will only post-stripe their own Fujichrome-Single8-film), there are only two factories left (AFAIK) that can stripe polyester-super8/single8:
* Chris Filmtechnik (Germany) - glues a "magnetic tape" onto the film. This can only be done for the main track as they're out of supply of the smaller tape for the balance track.
* EVT (UK) - puts a "liquid soundtrack" onto the film. (At least the result looks like it's "liquid soundtrack".)

Jörg

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on January 25, 2011, 01:00 PM:

Thanks Joerg, yes, forgot about EVT. I guess they use a similar paste method as Derann.

So what type of stripe is being applied to the latest polyester prints from Germany - Chris Filmtechnik?

Does anyone have a recent release on polyester? Anyone confirm what type of stripe it is and how it sounds?

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 25, 2011, 01:56 PM:

I'm curious about the same points but the one thing I have heard is that it is currently only possible to stripe the main stripe, not the balance stripe. I also heard that a test was done involving EVT, but I have no idea if EVT have striped any since.

I'm puzzled with regard to whether the polyestar prints that have been confirmed are 'random' or whether any release has specifically been printed on polyester. A recent release I've just bought was still acetate, but I hope the acetate stock runs out or is discontinued soon, as I'm sure the polyestar will have better colour. I have a 16mm polyestar print from the lab which certainly beat the 8mm version with regard to colour and contrast.

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on January 25, 2011, 02:10 PM:

On the other hand..stereo soundtracks add a LOT to the experience of showing films...and don't like that the new polyester releases will not have a balance stripe. That stripe serves two purposes....1. as an added sound track 2. to ensure even focus across the screen. The stripe does lift the film up and away from the path somewhat...and without, I wonder if edge to edge focus will suffer.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 25, 2011, 02:58 PM:

Good point, but I'm hoping that the balance stripe problem will be solved sooner or later. We certainly know that it can be done - and of course Derann did it for many years.

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on January 25, 2011, 03:29 PM:

The sound stripe on the newer German polyestar prints sound very good. I believe the stripe is away from gate so focus shouldn't be a problem. Apparently, there is a problem with the sound striper at Derann and probably is not worth fixing.

Posted by Joerg Polzfusz (Member # 602) on January 26, 2011, 08:34 AM:

Hi,

EVT striped some of my Fujichrome R25N/RT200N (Single8-colour-reversal on polyester base) approx. 2 years ago. I did a few short tests and the sound was as good as if striped by Fuji (main & balance track). However I still haven't managed to edit the films, hence I didn't do a better testing.

quote:
Good point, but I'm hoping that the balance stripe problem will be solved sooner or later. We certainly know that it can be done - and of course Derann did it for many years.

Of course Derann did so... and Chris Filmtechnik still has got the machines, the know-how, ... to apply the balance stripe. However the required special "magnetic audio tape" is out of production for more than a decade. (The "magnetic audio tape" for polyester-based films differs from the one used for acetate-based films.) Even if you still find some old tape, Chris Filmtechnik will refuse to use it as it's too brittle/stiff/... due to its age. And so far all attempts to reduce the main-track-tape's width failed.
In other words: If you want to have a balance track, use EVT's service or wait for a miracle that will not happen.

Jörg

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 26, 2011, 11:57 AM:

Jörg - Just to ensure that I've understood this correctly:
Is it Chris Filmtechnik who is striping the polyestar prints for the German lab, and if so is he still able to do the main stripe because the special "magnetic audio tape" for the main stripe is still produced, even though it isn't for the balance stripe? I suppose in theory it might be possible to apply a main stripe where the balance stripe should go (overlapping the edge of the film) and then slice a bit off, but no doubt this would need great precision even if it was feasible.

And presumably EVT are the only known people who can still apply liquid stripes to polyestar films? As most members will know, Derann's striping was of the liquid sort, but it sounds like it would take great effort and specialised skill to get their machine operational again.

Posted by Joerg Polzfusz (Member # 602) on January 27, 2011, 06:23 AM:

Hi,

no, the tape for the main stripe is out of production for a long time as well. (Maybe it got produced a little bit longer as it's also used for striping 16mm-films with two stripes:
http://www.fipra.de/000000982c0becf1f/000000982c0bee121/000000984012ac601.html ?)

Jörg

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 27, 2011, 09:58 AM:

That's disappointing - it's unfortunate that the manufacturers can't be persuaded to produce the occasional batch. I imagine that with the right equipment, it was easier to apply than liquid stripe.

It's also worrying if EVT is the sole option left with regard to polyester striping as I believe the owner is well past retirement age, so we must hope he sells the equipment to someone when he calls it a day!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 15, 2013, 02:02 AM:

Nick from E.V.T. now informs me he has closed down recently, so it appears the only option we now all have is to send our prints to Germany, Polyester or otherwise [Frown]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on May 15, 2013, 04:16 AM:

Shame this old thread has been brought back with sad news.

Thanks for the info though Andrew.

Another cine company gone. Inevitable, but still sad all the same.

Still, at least there are still companies out there doing this work. [Smile]

Posted by Joerg Polzfusz (Member # 602) on May 15, 2013, 04:18 AM:

That's bad news as E.V.T. has been the only remaining company (except Fuji) that was able to apply both soundstripes onto the Fujichrome R25N/RT200N... :-(

However there have been some changes regarding the polyester-striping in Germany:

The operator of the striping device at Chris Filmtechnik suddenly died.
The striping device then got sold to Andec.
I've heard rumours that the device is now operational at andec. However I haven't seen any prices,... on andec's webpage.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 15, 2013, 12:28 PM:

Baer in mind that Steve Osbourne of "Reel Image" is wanting to start a mag sound striping service through his own home offices in the US. I haven't had any further word yet, but I'm waiting with "baited breathe"!

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on May 15, 2013, 12:58 PM:

Even when Steve starts his striping service, there might still be a problem with Polyester prints. I've heard a solution has been found for mono striping, but its the thin balance stripe that is really difficult (aside from a shortage of stock).

Doug

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 15, 2013, 01:00 PM:

Your right Doug, I don't think the German lab ever did fix that problem. Still, you must admire they're persistence!

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on May 15, 2013, 04:06 PM:

Hey Doug-

Who did the striping for Captain A.?

I bought some nice trailers in 2012 from Reel Image, and the stripes were great on those.

James.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on May 15, 2013, 04:14 PM:

Surely without a balance stripe the picture will be out of focus across the width of the frame, unless of course you have one of the very few projectors, such as the Beaulieu, that has a rear sprung gate.

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on May 16, 2013, 06:25 AM:

Steve says the stripes on the polyester films are working out nicely.......including the stereo ones. Recording tests have been done on them and reports are good.

Posted by Joe Balitzki (Member # 438) on May 16, 2013, 06:11 PM:

Given the cost of new prints they better be! Imagine buying a expensive print and the stripe was bad or peeled off due to the difficulty of it adhering to Polyester Stock.

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