8mm Forum: Another World, Another Time

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Posted by Gregory S. Coad (Member # 2466) on March 01, 2011, 10:34 AM:

I can't remember when I wasn't crazy about movies. I do recall at ten years of age being allowed to go to the movies for the first time without my parents. I was heavily into the science fiction movies of the fifties. Saturday afternoons you could watch a cartoon festival for hours for a mere 50 cents, what a bargain!

I started out with a Kodak Brownie regular 8mm camera and projector set, went to silent Super 8mm and then opted for the ultimate in projectors, the Elmo sound ST1200. Every week I went down to my local camera store and bought the 200 ft. commercial sound striped films. A friend of mine bought the same projector and we teamed up doing shows in our neighborhood and a few campgrounds. Then in 1988 I put my projector away and went into computers. Last month (23 years later)I decided to go back into the "world of Super 8mm movies". I discovered quite a different world than the one I had previously known.

Here is my perception of Super 8mm in the year 2011. Some of these perceptions may be wrong and if they are, I would appreciate the members here correcting me.

1. Projectors, parts, bulbs, splicing tapes are still pretty available. No new commercial Super 8mm films are being produced, but there is a good supply of used movies around.

2. Members here tend to be older and may have been professional projectionists at one time. Younger (under 40 years of age) people are not as interested in the Super 8mm hobby as they have their high definition digital televisions.

I guess my question would be: Does super 8mm have a future? I would really like to think so. Your comments are welcome.

Greg

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 01, 2011, 11:18 AM:

Ahhh!

The Future..."Thing"!

We've had that discussion here many, many times.

This question actually started in the 1970s. An uncle of mine told me that within 5 years "nobody will be using that stuff anymore". That 5 years ended around 25 years ago now.

Look at it this way: There is no future in Edison wind-up phonographs. There is no future in Lionel trains. There is no future in Model T Fords/tube radios/cedar strip canoes/square dancing/log cabins/fountain pens/...etc., etc., etc.....

Yet, every one of these things is somebody's passion and still has some level of commercial support.

If this wasn't true you'd never see an antique car in a parade, but 80 and a hundred years out of the factory there they are.

So don't worry about it: relax, enjoy, participate!

PS: There are still films being printed...not so many as once, but they are out there.

Posted by Gregory S. Coad (Member # 2466) on March 01, 2011, 11:58 AM:

Steve,
You bring up some good points. There will always be somebody interested in these "old" things. I figured this topic might have come up previously, I just wanted the latest feelings. Thanks for your feedback.

Greg

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 01, 2011, 12:19 PM:

Actually the best argument for the future of Super-8 is the continued use of 9.5mm.

It wasn't ever as common, and hit it's peak a long, long time ago, but it's still around.

Posted by Kirkamus Anderson (Member # 2441) on March 01, 2011, 12:58 PM:

Interesting Gregory!

Well, let me just say I'm 25 and have been into shooting my own super8 movies since I was 19. I picked up a Chinon 132PXL for $3 at a goodwill and bought film at a small shop in San Francisco. I've been shooting 5-10 rolls of tri-x every summer for the last 5 years and projecting them for my friends every Christmas.

Now I have a Canon 814-XLS and a Chinon Projector, but still primarily use the Chinon 132PXL because it's so small and easy to carry/shoot.

As far as movie projection I bought a few silent 200' monster movies a few years back and always do a screening at Halloween time while people talk over the movie and make jokes. It's been such a success I've decided to continue buy more sound movies and try it again this summer. Hopefully with a full feature! (If money permits. Features are expensive!)

Let it be known that super8mm movie making and projection is not lost on the younger generation, it's just not known about.

That being said, I don't think I'm the average 25 year old either. I went to film school and studied 16mm film making with a wind up bolex. I edited on a flatbed steenbeck and like togo screen old movies in the hollywood forever cemetary. (Last year they had a great season!) I buy most of my stuff at estate/garage sales, but that's the perk of living in LA. Most people have a place in their heart for cinema and when the older generations pass on, I try to aquire their film making equipment and use it or pass it on.

Last week I picked up a CIR Super8 Splicer, a nice projector and a bunch of reels for next to nothing at an estate sale. The person who had owned the equipment had obviously been a producer of hollywood films in the 1970's and had collected some very nice 8mm pieces for their home movies. The person running the sale was about to throw them in the trash because she didn't know what they were.

Sorry for the rant.
Kirk

Posted by Gregory S. Coad (Member # 2466) on March 01, 2011, 01:23 PM:

Kirk,

I'm pleased to hear from the younger generation. I enjoyed hearing about you. A lot of the topics here are of a technical nature, which is important, but I also enjoy discussions of the human side of things especially members' experiences in film. Thanks for your input.

Posted by Kirkamus Anderson (Member # 2441) on March 01, 2011, 01:42 PM:

No worries Gregory!

The biggest unsaid issue that I don't think is discussed on this forum is money. 8mm movie making and projection is EXPENSIVE! It really always has been and always will be.

A lot of the members of this forum are people over 40. People over 40 usually have an income where they can throw around $1000 on hobbies and toys. They can easily buy a $300 print of Poltergeist or a $1000 Projector or $40 lamps.

When you make 40k a year it's a lot tougher to acquire the equipment and films.

My friends flip out when they find out that when I shoot a roll of Tri-X the costs are:
$15 for film
$15 for Processing
$20 for Transfer to video. (I don't have a variable speed projector.)
So that's $50 for 2.5 minutes of film

I want to buy a feature to screen this summer on Super8. Well, most features that my friends would want to watch are in the $150-$300 range. I can't drop 1/3 of my pay check on film.

When the costs are this high, it really prohibits the younger generation from embracing it. I'm not trying to complain or be a negative nancy, but when a movie I want comes up on Ebay and crosses the $40 mark I have to let it go. An older person who can throw around money will beat me every time and most of the kids in my generation simply can't afford to participate in film.

You have to really want to be involved and have a passion to do this at a young age.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on March 01, 2011, 02:11 PM:

quote:
They can easily buy a $300 print of Poltergeist or a $1000 Projector or $40 lamps.

We can??? I'd better tell my missus!!
[Big Grin]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 01, 2011, 03:12 PM:

Actually, as hobbies go collecting films is not that bad. I find I'm able to keep it under a hundred bucks a month (errr...most months) and be pretty satisfied.

On the other hand I have a '68 Torino GT mothballed in the garage because I couldn't afford it on the street and a kid in day care too. It seems that everything to do with restoring old cars is in the hundreds and thousands. I'm glad I did most of it when I was single.

Model Railroading seemed to be pretty affordable when I was a teenager, but as an adult it's not a mass-market thing anymore and what I could barely afford back then I can't afford at all now on six times the income (and ten times the expenses...)

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on March 01, 2011, 05:10 PM:

quote:
...(and ten times the expenses...)

There's the rub!
[Smile]

Posted by Gregory S. Coad (Member # 2466) on March 01, 2011, 05:46 PM:

Kirk,

Yes, money is a touchy subject. I never made more than $29,000 a year and that represented a lot of overtime. When I married, my wife couldn't work because of illness so we survived on one income all these years until Social Security. It is the ONLY income we have and to think I thought we were poor before! I'm glad I invested my money in this hobby when I was single as I couldn't do it today. I feel bad for the younger people today facing the high cost of living and then having to worry about their jobs.

Still, you do what you can, and just lower your expectations. It's a matter of priorities, do you really need that health club membership/magazine subscriptions/fancy expensive coffees every day/eating out/expensive cell phone monthly bills, etc., etc.

I think most younger people do have this perception that older folks have all kinds of investment income coming in and are sitting pretty. Most people I know of my age (66) are struggling to survive as their "fixed income" doesn't begin to cover the increases in food, gasoline, services, etc. and they see their "quality of life" steadily eroding.

I agree with you, Kirk, about doing all those things that are important to you while you have your youth, money and stamina. Old age brings expensive health bills which takes quite a slice of your income.

Happiness is keeping your expectations in check. OK, I'll get off my soapbox and let someone else have a turn. Thanks for listening.

Posted by Kirkamus Anderson (Member # 2441) on March 01, 2011, 06:21 PM:

I apologize for my blanket statement. I know times are tough for all and didn't mean to make it seem like older people have no financial problems. I guess it comes from whenever I've acquired equipment it has 90% come from homes of great wealth and lets be real. This stuff is expensive. You can be a movie buff and have a insane catalogue of dvd's for 1/10th of the price but it's not the same.
I love super8.
Maybe it's just the jealousy of seeing some amazing collections and being so far away from that.

Best!
Kirk

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on March 01, 2011, 06:21 PM:

Gregory - I'm delighted that you're on this forum, because it enables me to say that you're incorrect in saying "No new commercial Super 8mm films are being produced"!

One of the most valuable things this forum can do is keep collectors up to date in relation to new releases, and if you check the print reviews section, some of the reviews are for new product. As you're in the USA, I'd strongly recommend subscribing to 'The Reel Image' magazine, as editor Steve Osborne not only covers and sells news releases, he's responsible for many of them. The quantity of new releases is modest in comparison to the great days of the 1980s and 1990s, but there are still gems to be found. And of course supporting new releases is the best way of ensuring that they continue to happen. People have been predicting the final demise of Super 8 for years, and the fact that it hasn't happened should offer encouragement to us all.

Posted by Gregory S. Coad (Member # 2466) on March 02, 2011, 02:07 PM:

Adrian - I'm so glad that you have enlightened me about new Super 8mm commercial films being available. It's so encouraging! As a matter of fact, I am in the process of ordering a new belt for my Elmo ST1200 from Steve Osbourne and he assured me he would include a copy of his "The Reel Image" magazine for me to look at.

Adrian, I don't know if it is proper to say I am pleased to "meet" you since we will probably never meet face to face, but never the less, we are communicating with one another and sharing views and that counts for something. I have met so many intelligent and just plain friendly people on this forum that it's just like one big family and we don't even have to squabble on the holidays! I think most members really care about each other and try to help when someone has a problem. You don't see that in most other forums. This place is special.

Thanks for your encouraging words.

Posted by Nathan DeHahn (Member # 2192) on March 02, 2011, 03:16 PM:

I started collecting Vintage 8mm movie cameras and films in 2006. When i first brought regular 8mm film stock, got it processed and i viewed with my 8mm revere model 85 projector. I got amazed very quickly watching my footage. Its so colorful and fine grained film Ektachrome 100D. I decided to go flea market every summer to find more movie cameras or equipment. Last summer i brought seven outdated super 8 silent film stocks, three of them are Ektachrome 160 Type G all dated Dec. 1979. Four of them are Kodachrome 40 Type A all dated Aug. 1979. When i saw home movie footages from the 70's which the stock was ektachrome 160 has muted colors and bluish light burn. I liked this old stock but sadly it was discountinued in 1997. Kodachrome is also my favorite stock but i sadly i never got it processed before Dec. 30th. 8mm films are fun to view or film!

Posted by Gregory S. Coad (Member # 2466) on March 02, 2011, 04:57 PM:

Kirk - No apology needed. People are only human, they think everyone else has so much more and are better off than they are. In this economy there is not a person alive that is not being affected in some way by the world situation. You sound intelligent and ambitious and seem to have a "nose" for sniffing out bargains at estate sales and yard sales. I know you would like to purchase complete full length movies, but that is dreadfully expensive as you know. I have never even considered purchasing a full movie because I knew I could never afford it. How about maybe focusing on shorter length films which would offer you a larger variety of subjects for a lot less money?

The bulk of my Super 8mm film collection is 400 ft. length excerpts which run about 20 minutes. Usually the editing is done quite well on these and presents a reasonable summation of the original film.
Of course a lot depends on the age of your audience. My audience consisted of young people ages 5 to 18 years of age. I did a lot of birthday parties and campgrounds. I never had anyone complain because I didn't show a complete movie and too, you have to consider the attention span of children - they got bored very easily if there was not a lot of color and action.
What is your audience like? What do you consider a good length of time for a "movie night"? What are they interested in seeing? Would you be willing to share that with us?

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