8mm Forum: Phantom Ship "Mystery of the Marie Celeste"

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on April 27, 2011, 10:26 AM:

This question could easily be directed to Dino ...

Blackhawk released this early Bela Lugosi film (pretty good in my opinion), but in all Blackhawk prints on film and DVD, it is a shortened film. The original British version had a much longer prologue to the film, but it has never been seen ...

which leads me to a question ...

Was this ever released in 9.5MM?

Does the 9.5MM have that longer cut of the feature?

I ask as this was largely a British film guage and perhaps it would have a full cut of the film.

Posted by Brian Hendel (Member # 61) on April 27, 2011, 04:51 PM:

I bought a print of this recently and was also surprised at what a good film it was. I wanted it just because it was an early Hammer film - but I expected it to be talky and boring. But I was pleasantly surprised. The end wrapped up a little too quick - but other than that I highly recommend it.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on April 28, 2011, 01:21 AM:

I have a Blackhawk print of this one.

My reels 2 and 4 are pretty dupey looking while 1 and 3 are very sharp.
Anyone else got this?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on April 28, 2011, 10:26 AM:

The interesting thing is that when they released this on DVD, they used the Blackhawk master negative, which is the best in existence, and it is missing that prologue as well, which, on the back of the box it states to be "lost footage" these days ...

However, If a print of this exists, either in 16MM or especially 9.5mm, (as it is closer to the original release of this feature) there might be the chance that this footage could actully exist, even if the original 35MM doesn't exist.

Micheal, I have heard that about the reels as well ... (some dupey, some not).

From what I understand, the film begins in either a courtroom or official inquiry about what happened out at sea, and that the main part of the story is told in flashback.

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on April 28, 2011, 11:23 AM:

Oops I was sleeping on the job....Osi to the best of my knowledge (and the resources I have available to me) Phantom Ship was never released in an English dialogue version on 9.5 sound or 17.5 sound, the only thing I am not sure of is whether or not a French 9.5 sound version was ever released, but I am going to speculate no.,

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on April 28, 2011, 08:07 PM:

ThanX Dino ...

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on April 29, 2011, 02:38 AM:

Can confirm Osi that Mystery of the Marie Celeste was never issued on 9-5 or 17.5mm film. There seems to be a great deal of interest in this Bela film in the UK this month for some reason as several film fans within our region were also talking about it. I have a couple of Standard 8 sound features of it which are very good indeed one of which will be on my stall on Saturday for our film fair. In the early 80’s we used to meet regularly with other Lugosi fans to watch a film and share information which was great fun and even today we still have quite a few Bela fans nearby which is nice.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on April 29, 2011, 03:24 AM:

Lee,

Are the Standard 8 versions Blackhawks?

Have you noticed the difference in quality between reels which I mentioned above?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on April 29, 2011, 10:30 AM:

I was going to ask that too, Lee?

If the standard 8 print is great, how much ya wanna bet a certain "Micheal" shall be a potential customer for it?

... especially if it's a Blackhawk standard 8mm, as Blackhawks standard 8mm had a much higher constant standard of quality than they're Super 8 prints.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on May 01, 2011, 02:22 AM:

Will run my print again poss next week and post a report as to the print quality on each reel to see if any shift takes place. [Smile]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on May 01, 2011, 03:33 PM:

I have the Super 8 Blackhawk version and there's no obvious shift in quality between the reels.

More recently I obtained a mint Blackhawk 16mm print thinking I'd sell the Super 8, but it has constant printed-in imperfections that I'd think were due to the age of the film, if not for the fact that they are not on the Super 8 version, so I'll probably sell the 16mm instead!

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on May 02, 2011, 07:08 PM:

Is Lugosi's role pretty sizeable or is he merely in a minor supporing role? The one-sheet I've seen features only his image, but the practice of featuring the faces of well-known actors/actresses on posters for movies was pretty standard even if the players had very small roles. I'd hate to get it some day, as a Lugosi curiosity piece, and find he's only in it for a very short length of time.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on May 03, 2011, 05:58 AM:

I was looking through the archive last night and found I also have a Super 8 feature of this one so I ran this prior to the standard 8mm version I have. The Super 8 I have is not a Blackhawk print and is good sharp quality and very good sound for the year. It will be interesting to see how the Standard 8 Blackhawk print looks a little later this week. I have no idea who put out this Super 8 version by the way and its turning into even more of a mystery than the films title!

Yes Brad I would put this film in the curiosity section for Lugosi fans but quite desirable on film as various DVD issues are drastically chopped and from poor quality material on the whole.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on May 03, 2011, 07:12 PM:

That's surprising that there's a Super 8 version that isn't Blackhawk. It would be interesting to know if the opening titles are different.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on May 03, 2011, 08:51 PM:

Niles released it under the title "Phantom Ship" in Super 8 Sound for $89 back in 1979. Blackhawk issued it as "Mystery Of The Mary Celeste". I believe Reel Images out of Sandy Hook, Connecticut and Ivy Films also released it under the P/S title, as well. Being that it's been a public domain title for years I'm sure there were a number of film vendors that released it. Niles, Reel Images, Ivy and Thunderbird specialized in PD titles utilzing 16mm masters and rarely took efforts to clean them up at all. They kept their overheads down by not licensing too much and performing little to no restoration on their products. This explains why titles like "It's A Wondeful Life", "Night Of The Living Dead", "White Zombie", "Utopia" and older WB and Fleischer cartoons were offered in many different catalogs of the day. I'm sure the masters they all used were different. Interested in which vendor used the best masters, overall. Blackhawk offered alot of silent PD properties, but they often took pains to restore many of their A-title masters before issuing prints. Not always successful, I will say. Much of their silent stuff was B/C-grade dreck. I gave alot of it away back in the late 70's when I graduated to sound.

[ May 04, 2011, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Brad Kimball ]

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on May 04, 2011, 04:36 AM:

This particular movie has also been a hot topic on other electronic media forums in recent years as people try to locate a complete DVD of good quality. To my knowledge there is no issue complete which has the original title and of good enough quality worth a view. I have obtained a number of DVD issues and all are cut and very variable which is a shame.

If someone has the Blackhawk Super 8 feature can they tell us if it has lab numbers on or the Blackhawk logo? My own Super 8 feature has no Blackhawk logo at the start so I am assuming not a print by them unless someone knows different.

Will run and time my Standard 8 print shortly and report back.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 04, 2011, 01:42 PM:

My Super 8 print has the title card - Blackhawk Films presents THE MYSTERY OF THE MARY CELESTE starring Bela Lugosi.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on May 05, 2011, 04:39 AM:

Very many thanks for that Michael and that now confirms the Super 8 print I have is definitely not Blackhawk as it has the opening leader complete without a BH logo and runs into the opening titles. Question is who put it out then? My Super 8 print is on Acetate stock and is well on the way to filling two 800ft reels.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 05, 2011, 06:06 AM:

The Blackhawk print is 4x400 reels.

Are there no giveaway markings anywhere on the leader, Lee?

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on May 05, 2011, 07:00 AM:

I wonder if this print was produced as a one off or something due to the lack of identification. Bit of a mystery to me this particularly as the print is good and certainly not duped but looks to have been struck from a good negative. Once I have timed the Std 8 print I will re run the Sup 8 and time that to get a rough idea of duration. +/- [Eek!]

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 05, 2011, 09:36 AM:

Have you checked tails for markings?

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