8mm Forum: ELMO ST 600: Up and Running!

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Posted by Gerald Santana (Member # 2362) on November 03, 2011, 08:42 PM:

Hi Folks,

I just picked up an Elmo ST 600 M and plugged it in, the VU meter light goes on. I turn the switch to play (and reverse) and the fan goes on but the motor drive doesn't turn.

Anyone have this machine or know what could remedy the problem before I try to open it up?

The right answer gets a free 400' Super 8 film!

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on November 03, 2011, 09:06 PM:

If it's anything like the ST-800 the fan is actually mounted on the drive motor's shaft, so your motor really is running.

I think you've got a busted belt!

(No big deal!)

Posted by Gerald Santana (Member # 2362) on November 03, 2011, 09:12 PM:

Your on stand -by for a freebie Steve...thanks!

Posted by Gerald Santana (Member # 2362) on November 04, 2011, 08:56 PM:

Steve, I opened it up and the belt was broken up into many peices -- some of it turned to gel and I had to scrape it off of small parts.

PM your address to get your film.

I'll take a picture when the belt I ordered gets here and post it below when repaired. [Smile]

P.S. Does anyone have an manual for this projector handy?

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on November 05, 2011, 12:23 AM:

Gerald

Go to the manuals section right here on the forum. Scroll way down to 8mm projectors and you will find it. Free download.

Pat

Posted by Gerald Santana (Member # 2362) on November 08, 2011, 10:07 PM:

Thanks for the heads up Pat!

Update:

I wanted to let you know that I found belts and put them on, the projector almost works! Everything is going right including the lamp, until I go to load the film through the automatic path, before it reaches the sound head, it goes through the space between, getting caught and turning into an accordion!

What can I do to fix the path before it reached the sound head so that it runs smoothly through there? I could use my finger to push up on a small black piece before it reaches the sound head to guide it through. Nice picture and very quiet.

To quiet, there is also no sound! [Embarrassed]

Nothing coming out of the speaker or the VU meter while the film is in play. I plugged in a mic and not a peep. I also tried some advice from this thread:

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001501

Hmm. Any ideas on what to do?

Posted by Nick Field (Member # 2132) on November 09, 2011, 12:50 AM:

I know this is a silly question but have you flicked the sound switch over from silent to sound? The mic will not work unless the record button is pressed down,don't do this whilst playing a film or you will wipe the sound from the stripe. My st 600 auto loading has the same problem as yours, i just hold the sound head up and it works then,i never have a problem i just put up with it really. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on November 09, 2011, 11:48 AM:

Did you try trimming the end of the leader? My Elmos are kind of touchy about this. A square end tends to catch and jam, the semicircular cut provided by the built in trimmer goes right through. Are you pressing the top chute down before threading?

Lack of sound is pretty much standard for an Elmo that has been in storage because of oxide buildup on electrical contacts. Press and release the red record key a couple of times, get a set of headphones and plug and unplug them from the machine's various jacks and generally work every sound related switch you can find a few times. Then see if the sound works or not.

Posted by Gerald Santana (Member # 2362) on November 09, 2011, 12:13 PM:

Hi Nick,

It is switched to sound and tried to use the mic while it's on record, still nothing. Not even a hum from the amp. I also tried looking at and switching the fuse for the amp and it looks fine. Still, no hum as I'm usually accustomed to hearing when I turn up the volume knob.

Steve,

I trimmed the end with no success, it only helps when I press on the small black piece close to the sound head. It threads through just fine, I noticed some of the smaller rollers on the narrow chute could use lubrication. Otherwise, I'll try pressing and depressing, inserting and ejecting the mic and headphones for a few minutes like you said, and get back to you.

Thanks all...

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on November 09, 2011, 12:49 PM:

Hmmmmmmmmm!!!

Did you restore the speaker connection when you replaced the back panel after changing the belts?

Posted by Gerald Santana (Member # 2362) on November 09, 2011, 01:26 PM:

Very Hmmmm, Steve!

Yes, I did unplug and reconnected the RCA cable from the speaker back into its place. I also tested it with a different speaker and nothing.

In next step, I took the speaker from the Elmo and placed speaker wire connected to my stereo while it was on the radio, and the speaker works.

Any other ideas?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on November 09, 2011, 01:47 PM:

-That's a shame!

It's a classic Elmo owners goof! One of the members here actually returned a fairly new Elmo to the dealer only to find out this was what was "wrong" with it. [Roll Eyes]

It's like locking your keys in your car: everybody that owns a car will do it eventually!

So you're saying you have absolute dead silence, but you had at least hum before?

Posted by Gerald Santana (Member # 2362) on November 09, 2011, 02:06 PM:

I understand the feeling Steve, so close yet...so far away from solving the problem...

All I get is a hum from the motor but no, hint of sound coming through the amp. Like I said, the exciter lamp goes on and almost everything else works as well. The threading issues sound like Grant Fitzgerald's current problem as well with his Chinon but, I have a way to get it through.

I switched the fuses (they work), tested the speaker (it works), tested the mic (it works on a different projector) tested the film for sound (no sound), pressed and depressed record while running at least 60 times (still, no sound from mic), and detached and attached wires that are clip near the transformer. Still, no sound!

Any other ideas?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on November 09, 2011, 02:12 PM:

Divide and Conquer:

It you plug an external amp into the aux output, does sound come out of that?

If so then your power amp is dead, if not maybe everything is dead!

Posted by Nick Field (Member # 2132) on November 09, 2011, 02:20 PM:

Right,if you have no fluctuation on the vu either from film sound or from a mic you may have a problem on the pre-amp circuitry,this rules out a sound head fault. It may be just a fault between the pre-amp and output amp like a faulty on/off switch or the connection plug from the pre-amp to the main circuit board.

Posted by Gerald Santana (Member # 2362) on November 09, 2011, 02:34 PM:

I just plugged in an external speaker with a mic connected and nothing! Is there anything you can recommend I take out to try and fix this? I've never tried to do it and don't mind working on it with your help. Otherwise, is it a lost cause to try and fix it myself or should I leave it someone who has expert handling to do the repairs? I don't have a schematic for the machine but, it looks very simple to put back together.

P.S. The VU fluctuation only occurs when I turn the switch from "off" to lamp and back again.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on November 09, 2011, 02:43 PM:

I have a set of schematics for the ST-600.

I just sent them to your Yahoo e-mail address.

Posted by Gerald Santana (Member # 2362) on November 09, 2011, 02:47 PM:

Great! I'll hold off working on it until then...much appreciated

Stay "tuned".

Posted by Nick Field (Member # 2132) on November 09, 2011, 03:41 PM:

Hi steve, you hav'nt got one for an st 800 have you? I have a similar problem but I think I may have narrowed it down to a few components,I just need some resistance values and component placements etc.
Many thank's
Nick.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on November 09, 2011, 03:56 PM:

Nick,

I wish I did! I don't own an ST-600, but Martin Jones sent me the schematic on the theory that they are similar to my ST-800.

...it seems to have worked: since he sent them, the thing hasn't died on me even once!

You are welcome to them if you want them, of course.

Something to check on ST-800 (maybe others): there is a little circuit board where wires from the head go, and then go out to the sound board. It's only a surface solder and I've seen them pop off.

The board is mounted to the chassis under the framing knob.

Posted by Nick Field (Member # 2132) on November 10, 2011, 12:09 AM:

Thank's Steve, already done a re-solder on those and some dodgy looking black solders on the boards, it's a bit of a challange at the moment,it maybe a bad capacitor only you have to unsolder these to ohms test them. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Gerald Santana (Member # 2362) on November 10, 2011, 02:54 PM:

LET THERE BE SOUND! And there was sound and it was good...

After looking at the inspiring Japanese 8-mm film site and reading through some repair and maintenance techniques. I woke up this morning thinking, "nothing is wrong with the projector, it works."

I took it apart last night and let it sit in a drafty room overnight with the window open to get some moisture in the machine. Most of the dissembling was taking out the most of the amp and letting it sit carefully while attached to the projector.

This morning, I went back to assemble it after checking all of the connections, capacitors and resistors -- they all appeared to be fine. Reassembled the amp, took my duster and gave it a minute of air everywhere until the can was cold as ice. Put the back on and plugged it in. I pressed and depressed record while the projector was in play when I saw it happen...movement in the VU meter!

I ran a film but it was totally garbled however, HUM was happening so I knew I was just a step away. I took of the front cover and disassembled sound head components, cleaned the pinch rollers and sound head with alcohol. Lowered the sound head that was set to high and ran the film again with the volume turned up.

Nice and very loud sound filled the room. What can I say, another Forum success story! There is still the issue with threading properly, I will post a picture a start a different thread for that issue. In the meantime, I'm at 99%

Steve, your film is on it's way today for chiming in first. I now have a nice back up projector to my Kodak Instamatic! I'll run it later tonight with a full reel to see how it looks.

Thanks all [Smile]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on November 10, 2011, 07:40 PM:

Strange condition: When one of my projectors croaks it's a depressing moment,

-yet when I fix it, it's somehow worth it! It's some endorphin....thing, I'm sure!

I salute you, Gerald!

Posted by Gerald Santana (Member # 2362) on November 10, 2011, 08:42 PM:

I got some sound drops, later after some pres/depress on record, I got it back.

Still, there is the threading issue right before the sound head. Something I could live with but, it will irk me until it's fixed. I'm taking suggestions for that repair.

Pat, on a side note - I also got the zoom lens today...can't wait to try it out. It fits!

Posted by Jon Addams (Member # 816) on November 15, 2011, 04:27 PM:

Hello Gerald,

This should help with your threading problem.

You need to adjust "A"by raising "B". Please note that the screw hole on "B" is off center, this is designed so that "A"can be adjusted to the right height by rotating the screw's sleeve.

When "A"is too low, the film will drop in the space right after "A"and before reaching the sound reader. If you don't have such a screw you should try to find one that's similar.

Sometimes we need to be creative, I have a thin piece of hard plastic instead of a screw in another ST-600 I own - it's been performing flawlessly for a couple of years now. [Big Grin]

I hope this helps,

Jon

[ November 26, 2011, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Jon Addams ]

Posted by Gerald Santana (Member # 2362) on November 26, 2011, 12:17 PM:

Jon,

Thanks for these pictures, and suggestions, I used a piece of masking tape folded to a thickness of 1/16" and that worked until the tape piece got to flat.

I'll try your suggestions tonight and report back later with results,

My gratitude for your help!

Posted by Gerald Santana (Member # 2362) on December 14, 2011, 02:12 AM:

A big thanks to both Steve Klare and Jon Addams for their help in restoring this projector. The film is running through its path about 90% of the time -- hardly any gathering any more near the soundhead thanks to Jon tips on adjustment.

I'm using it regularly now and manually threading it when there is an issue with "gathering" or "crinkling". It only takes about a minute to do and it runs very smoothly.

One other issue that is now getting resolve when I run the Elmo is sound drop outs. I found that if you move the the silent/sound control back and forth, it brings back the sound without having to stop the screening. Once the sound is back it usually stays good the rest of the night.

Again, many thanks for your help...I really like this projector!

[Smile]

Posted by Caroline Tyson (Member # 6261) on January 09, 2018, 01:35 PM:

Hi all,
I know I'm very late to this conversation, but I just want to say that I'm super grateful to google for brining me here!
I'm trying to get my family's old Elmo Sound ST 600M 2 track going so we can all relive our childhood memories in the form of home movies. Thanks to Gerald and Steve and the rest of you for making it really easy for me to figure out that all I need to do is replace the belt(s)!!! The one currently in the camera was broken into about 20 pieces.
I have been searching the forum for manuals but I haven't found the ones you guys mention (sorry for being obtuse) only a link to a site where you can buy them.
Would any of you mind taking a picture of your appropriately placed belts? According to what I found on eBay, there should be two, and it's not totally obvious to me where they go. I'd like to avoid accidentally breaking the sound wiring. [Smile]

Thanks very much!

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on January 09, 2018, 02:59 PM:

Caroline
I can't help with the belts, but I am sure someone will come to your rescue.
However, you can download for free the Instruction Manual.
Click on below, and when on the 8mm Projectors page, scroll down to Elmo ST-600 Projector and then click it.
http://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/index.php?category=2#8mm Projectors

Posted by Caroline Tyson (Member # 6261) on January 11, 2018, 02:06 PM:

Thanks so much, Maurice!! Even if the normal manual doesn't show the belts, it's great to have some actual instructions! I was a little kid the last time the projector ran and even though I remember watching my dad, it's great to have a proper manual. [Smile]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 11, 2018, 02:22 PM:

Caroline - a warm welcome to the forum. I must say how refreshing it is to hear of a family eager to experience the fun and better picture quality that will come from projecting home movies on a screen, instead of making plans to get rid of any such equipment having (e.g.) checked the films and bought a DVD transfer!

Posted by William Olson (Member # 2083) on January 12, 2018, 10:29 PM:

There may be blown fuses.

Posted by Caroline Tyson (Member # 6261) on January 13, 2018, 12:53 PM:

Thanks for the warm welcome, Adrian! We haven't told my 80yo dad about this project (my mom helped me sneak the equipment out of the house) and my brother and I are getting pretty excited about the surprise screening we're planning. I guess we better not get too carried away until we know it'll work.....

William - the machine makes noise and the light works.... but the belts had decayed. Hopefully new belts will fix it, as described above! If not, I'll explore fuses next. Thanks for the tip.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on January 13, 2018, 01:50 PM:

Caroline
Did you see the new Topic I opened on your behalf, and the reply about the belts?
"Elmo ST 600M Belts".

Posted by Caroline Tyson (Member # 6261) on January 13, 2018, 09:13 PM:

Thanks for the warm welcome, Adrian! We haven't told my 80yo dad about this project (my mom helped me sneak the equipment out of the house) and my brother and I are getting pretty excited about the surprise screening we're planning. I guess we better not get too carried away until we know it'll work.....

William - the machine makes noise and the light works.... but the belts had decayed. Hopefully new belts will fix it, as described above! If not, I'll explore fuses next. Thanks for the tip.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 14, 2018, 01:50 PM:

Caroline - that sounds like a great surprise you have lined up for your dad! You're using a relatively straightforward projector, so with luck there won't be difficulties once you have new belts. You may possibly find that you need to make or remake the odd splice and possibly add some leader, depending on what shape the films are in. If you need to buy a spare lamp, it's a very inexpensive type.

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