8mm Forum: Another Chinon 7000 Problem

This is topic Another Chinon 7000 Problem in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Grant Fitzgerald (Member # 2796) on November 14, 2011, 01:40 PM:

My projector has been running fine until now. When I play a film it will run a fine for a bit but eventually the regular ticking noise starts getting allot louder and then the image starts to get blurry and feathered. I open it up to see what was going on and it looks like the film is rubbing against the projector during a part of the feeding process. I don't know if that is the reason for the flickering or not. It is the only thing I can see changing during the feeding process. Also I will switch it to thread for a second and it will stop but then it will go back to being feathered and loud! Anyone have any suggestions?

here is a video of what is happening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqiVrDPpjkg

[ November 18, 2011, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: Grant Fitzgerald ]

Posted by Jon Addams (Member # 816) on November 14, 2011, 02:00 PM:

Your projector is losing the loop. You can happen for a number of reasons, including but not limited to a pull down pin misalignment. When this happens, the pin misses the film's hole causing a jump.

The loop in the 7000 is normally restored, as you are doing, by switching back to thread and then back to project, but if this only corrects the problem briefly, then it needs to be looked further and corrected.

Jon

Posted by Grant Fitzgerald (Member # 2796) on November 14, 2011, 02:10 PM:

Where would this pin be located and how do i fix this?

Posted by Grant Fitzgerald (Member # 2796) on November 18, 2011, 05:47 PM:

Does anyone know how to fix this problem. Sometimes it doesn't happen but it seems that a majority of the time it does. Can anyone help?

here is a video of what is happening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqiVrDPpjkg

[ November 18, 2011, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: Grant Fitzgerald ]

Posted by John Skujins (Member # 1515) on November 18, 2011, 07:51 PM:

My Chinon 7500 will sometimes not have a great loop when I first thread a film and get it going. A quick back-and-forth to thread and back will usually fix it, but sometimes it takes a few tries, repeating the back-and-forth until the feed is smooth. Once it's running smooth it stays that way for the rest of the reel.

Posted by Grant Fitzgerald (Member # 2796) on November 18, 2011, 09:21 PM:

OK thank you!I tried this and it doesn't seem to be working. It maybe will fix it but most of the time it stays flickery.

Posted by frank arnstein (Member # 330) on November 18, 2011, 11:37 PM:

Hi Grant,
This problem happens on old Chinons and Gaf quite a lot.
In some cases a ball of fluff has built up on the claw finger tip causing problems locating deep into the film. If thats Ok then the claw movement usually needs to be adjusted for more penetration into the film to prevent annoying loss of film loop.

The correct setting is achieved by sliding the shutter with cam forwards on the shuttershaft a bit at a time till the claw movement is right. 2 Tiny grubscrews in the shutter hub lock things together so you will need to loosen them before adjusting.
Make sure that the claw fully retreats below the level of the gate when it is moving up for another grab at the film. It must not be able to touch the film during this movement.
Try to adjust for maximum penetration while still getting complete retreat below the gateline when moving up for another grab.
If you get it just right the projector will play continuously without loosing a loop or scratching film.

So check that out on your projector and let us know what you find and how you go..
dogtor frankarnstein
[Wink]

[ November 23, 2011, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: frank arnstein ]

Posted by Grant Fitzgerald (Member # 2796) on November 19, 2011, 11:37 AM:

I am sorry but I don't understand allot of the vocab you are mentioning.

What is the claw, the sprocket hole?

How do I do this? (The correct setting is achieved by sliding the shutter with cam forwards on the shuttershaft a bit at a time till the claw movement is right.)

And this? (2 Tiny grubscrews in the shutter hub lock things together so you will need to loosen them before adjusting.)

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on November 19, 2011, 11:15 PM:

I find on my 3 Chinons (6000,6100 &7000) I have to switch back-and-forth from "Thread" to "Forward" to eliminate some of the chatter. Often I'll remove the lens and get rid of the dust bunnies with a small soft paint brush with a teeny drop of alcohol on it. Seems to be common for the Chinon machines. I'm not at all surprised that the GAFs also have this issue being that Chinon made them and just applied the GAF badges to the covers.

[ November 20, 2011, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: Brad Kimball ]

Posted by Grant Fitzgerald (Member # 2796) on November 19, 2011, 11:20 PM:

Brad: this doesn't seem to be solving the problem for me. Is there anything else you could suggest?

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on November 20, 2011, 10:33 PM:

Gee, Grant. Unfortunately, I don't have any better suggestions than what's already been offered by the fine gents above this post. My first sound projector was a 6000 that suffered from this horribly and I found myself eventually replacing it altogether. I've come to live with the reality that these units are often 30-40 years old and like everything electronic they have a life span. I know this isn't helping you with your dilemma, but I wanted you to know I have alot of empathy for your issue. I love this hobby as much as you and all of our fellow cinemaphiles here on the forum and I totally get how disappointing it is when you hit this kind of wall. I'm not very mechanically inclined so I tend to replace troublesome units as soon as I feel there isn't much more I can do. I envy these masters amongst us who possess the knowledge and ability to correct many problems such as the one you're having now.

Posted by Grant Fitzgerald (Member # 2796) on November 22, 2011, 02:13 PM:

Frank- Could you possibly describe the steps I should take that you suggested in a very thorough way so I can understand. Pictures would be nice.

Posted by Jon Addams (Member # 816) on November 22, 2011, 03:28 PM:

Hello Grant,

Here are photos that illustrate which grub screws you have to loosen so you can move the fan and claw assembly together to correct your loop problem.

You need to loosen the pictured screws and them move the entire assembly forward by pushing the shutter just a little at a time until the proper penetration is achieved.

I don’t know everything you have done to try to solve your problem but if proper penetration is the issue, this will solve it and your loop will be back.

However, if your moved the pin sideways, perhaps while trying to fix the loop problem, then you will need to adjust the lateral pin position to make sure it lines up with the center of the film holes. First let’s get the loop back.

I removed the motor on the Chinon 7000 so you can have a better look at the grub screws, you can also see them thru the front by removing the lamp.

I hope this helps.

Jon

P.S. Don't forget to tighten the screws when done [Wink]

Posted by Grant Fitzgerald (Member # 2796) on November 22, 2011, 03:45 PM:

So do I move the fan left and right or back and forth? Also do i do this with or without film inside?

Posted by Jon Addams (Member # 816) on November 22, 2011, 05:13 PM:

Grant,

You have to move it forward and without film.

Jon

Posted by Grant Fitzgerald (Member # 2796) on November 22, 2011, 08:55 PM:

I found it and adjusted it and it seemed to work but when I rewound it seemed like there was something wrong in the looping process because the films was drifting off the route it is supposed to take and ended up ripping my now test film again. I have tried adjusting it multiple times and similar problems. Do you know what is causing this? How far forward do I need to move it? It just keeps bunching up when I put it on forward now.

I stopped using real film and used some leader which I am glad I did because it keeps bunching really badly now and breaking almost every time I try. I keep adjusting the fan and shaft or whatever it is called and it hasn't gotten any better.

[ November 22, 2011, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: Grant Fitzgerald ]

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on November 28, 2011, 12:23 PM:

Are you rewinding it by running the film through the gate? Is that normal for that Model Chinon? Most rewinding is done with the film running directly from the take-up reel to the feed reel and not going through the gates and/or sprockets.

Posted by Grant Fitzgerald (Member # 2796) on November 28, 2011, 12:33 PM:

Well it is my first projector and I didn't realize until this weekend that I could rewind by going strait to the reel. SO I would stop it before it detaches and the rewind it through the projector.

Posted by Grant Fitzgerald (Member # 2796) on November 28, 2011, 06:27 PM:

Ok guys IDK what I did but it seems to be working again. I played a film totally with no problem, now I tried another one and it was playing fine for a few minutes but now there seems to be another little flickering problem. After the film is done I am going to adjust the shaft again. I will keep you all posted. Thank you all for the advice. I hope I don't have anymore problems from here on out.

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on November 28, 2011, 07:33 PM:

are your films in good shape you might have some bad sprocket holes in your films?

Posted by Grant Fitzgerald (Member # 2796) on November 28, 2011, 07:38 PM:

It seems to be working perfectly fine now! I am so releaved and happy. Just hope it stays that way.

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on November 29, 2011, 01:15 AM:

Grant
I think what Jim mentioned is going to be important for you going forward. Since you are still learning the ropes so to speak about general projector operation, one of the things that will help you tremendously will be making sure that the film you are running through the projector is completely damage free.... When you are dealing with film this cannot be understated as those of us who have been doing this for awhile will tell you.....This is especially true for the beginnings of reels.

I would say that most damage occurs when threading the so-called "auto" thread machines...I have had many that I need to thread in spurts if I notice that the leader might be curled a little too much, because it needs to slide through the entire film path perfectly without catching on anything. For Instance I usually find it best to keep most machines in the "threading" mode until the leader comes out the back for the take-up or else you often risk putting something in the way of the straight shot it wants for threading....The more I kept thinking about the video where your film bunched up when you switched it over from thread to run I can't help but wonder if that was because the film wasn't finished its threading path...

Posted by Grant Fitzgerald (Member # 2796) on November 29, 2011, 07:42 AM:

I usually wait till the beginning of the thread come out of the projector, but in the video all I was using was thread. But my projector seems to be working fine now. IDK why exactly. But I did take off the white thread.

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on November 29, 2011, 11:19 AM:

there are some bad white leaders out there where the sprocket holes are not the distance they are suppose to be, beware of those cheap leaders if possible buy kodak brand or from a dealer you can come to know and trust.

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on November 29, 2011, 03:22 PM:

Check the web and see if you can find a User Manual. Search on Ebay and save the search.

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