8mm Forum: Eumig 810 D eating film

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Posted by Royce Marcus (Member # 2905) on February 13, 2012, 02:03 PM:

Hey guys, I've seen a few posts about this projector but need some advice of my own. I picked up this great unit for about $50. The guy said he never used it and, from what I can tell, he was being honest. This thing was in magnificent condition, inside and out. Really just a bit of dust that I airblasted out and had to get a new bulb for it. However, I'm having some serious problems with it.

I correctly changed the teeth and everything so it would accept regular 8mm film, but when all the film I've tried to place in it keeps getting eaten and I have no idea why. I use the provided splicer to get clean cuts and firmly depress the threading key as instructed, but the film always gets eaten either at the first small film sprocket or somewhere around the treading key or fill pressure pad or gate. It's like the teeth will start to pick up the film and then it just eats it up. I've gone back in, redusted, and carefully taken all the parts back out and in to ensure they are secured properly, but to no avail.

I'm ordering some more white leader, hoping that will help (the film is from the 1940s to mid 1960s and probably was not stored in the best condition though, to me, looks to be in acceptable condition) but is there anything else I can do to help? Is there a way to clean or treat the film, or is it a projector problem? As I've said, the project looks to be in great shape and the teeth look fine and even to me. I just really don't want to destroy any more film. I've heard of methods to lubricate areas, but am a real projector newbie and don't know much about this. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you so much,

Royce

Posted by Bruce Wright (Member # 2793) on February 13, 2012, 02:37 PM:

Hi Royce: I have an elmo that loves to eat white leaders. Had an old film, cut off the white leader,Elmo was happy. I am new at this but there are some experts on this forum who can help you. Hang in there.

Posted by Royce Marcus (Member # 2905) on February 13, 2012, 03:56 PM:

Yeah, that's what I'm hearing. I've gotten one or two 50' reels to go through, and then, in the middle of one, it decided to start eating that too! Luckily, on most of them, they are clean breaks, at least if it breaks on the film, not the leader.

Posted by Akshay Nanjangud (Member # 2828) on February 13, 2012, 06:15 PM:

I had this problem with my Bolex months ago, when I purchased it. Once I started lubricating the film (dry film seems to be weak to the pull of the projector) and lubricating as much of the film path as possible, the problem went away. I also make sure I feed film that is smooth without any creases. So, in my case, the problem really wasn't with the projector.

Posted by Royce Marcus (Member # 2905) on February 13, 2012, 06:34 PM:

Cool. Can you guys recommend any lubricators and the best way to apply them? This is something I've never done. Thanks,

Posted by Akshay Nanjangud (Member # 2828) on February 13, 2012, 06:43 PM:

I got some rubbing alcohol and mineral oil from Ace Hardware for lubrication. I mix both, and ensure to use oil very very sparingly.

However, this is definitely not a standard procedure. So, let's wait and watch what others recommend. I might learn something too.

Posted by frank arnstein (Member # 330) on February 13, 2012, 11:20 PM:

Hi Royce,

I have had a similar problem on a few 800 series Sound Eumigs, where the top loop kept dissappearing during or even after threading and damaged film resulted. It was a tricky one to pinpoint because everything looks Ok upon initial inspection.

Perhaps your 810d is suffering from the same problem or maybe it's only common to the 810 straight Super 8 models & not the duals. I have repaired at least 2 projectors with this fault but can't remember now if they were duals or not.

Anyway, just behind the removeable top sprocket there is a brown plastic drive hub locked onto the sprocket shaft. This hub transfers drive to the sprocket from the shaft using a kind of dog clutch and locating circlip to lock together and transmit drive from the hub to the sprocket. On some Eumig 800's this fragile plastic drive hub has developed a tiny crack in it, allowing the hub to slip on the shaft when its loaded with film.

Some model 800's (not all) have a tiny .05mm hex. grub screw that secures the plastic drive hub to the sprocket shaft. These are the versions to be careful of as these are the ones that come loose and crack. Constant loss of top loop will put great strain on this pastic hub & could be the real cause of the breakages.

Further tightening the grub screw on a cracked collar will only force the crack to open more. It will still slip on the shaft preventing steady film input to the gate and claw.

Replace it with a good uncracked drive collar, or it may be possible to super glue it back together once the collar is removed. Refit and tighten very carefully to prevent a crack re-occurring.

Other 800 series models seem to have done away with the grub screw altogether and the drive hub and shaft were pressed together. These models don't suffer the cracked hub syndrome.

So let us know if yours has this annoying cracked drive hub.
dogtor frankarnstein

[Smile]

[ February 16, 2012, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: frank arnstein ]

Posted by Royce Marcus (Member # 2905) on February 14, 2012, 12:33 PM:

Thanks for the response. Frank is this what you're talking about (note i removed the teeth for the sake of this pic)?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/DeadMan88/etc/projector.jpg

I see a tiny whole that may or may not have a screw in it. Before I start digging around, I want to make sure this is what you're talking about.

Posted by frank arnstein (Member # 330) on February 14, 2012, 06:45 PM:

Hi Royce

Yes, the picture shows the correct area but it is too dark to see the parts clearly.

The grub screw will be located on the outer periphery of the drive hub. So look around the outer edge for a tiny hole containing the screw which locks to the shaft.

dogtor

Posted by Royce Marcus (Member # 2905) on February 20, 2012, 09:44 AM:

Okay, after a closer examination, I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. The only screw I see is located in a small hole on the black piece of plastic that moves when you press the threading key. It also requires a flathead of about 2.4mm, not the .05mm as you mentioned. I'm also unable to get it out (it's stuck in there pretty good and I'm afraid of stripping it). I'm wondering if maybe just a small amount of lubrication along the teeth and film track and maybe a new thing of white leader might just do the trick. I've got some white leader coming in the mail, but am still yet to find any film lube. Does anybody know of a place to get a good solution for cheap?

Posted by Royce Marcus (Member # 2905) on March 23, 2012, 04:48 PM:

So I had to take a break from this to work on other things. To be honest, I wasn't really sure what to do next. But last night it came to me in a dream that I could take the new 8mm leader I bought and run that through the projector to test if the problem was originating from the film or the projector. Wouldn't you know it, the projector ran my new leader perfectly. So I guess the answer is that the film is simply to dry and brittle to be safely run through a projector.

Will buying a lubricant solve my problems, or are there other factors (such as film shrinkage or expansion) that might be coming into play? Also, I would say it's safe to assume that I should lubricate both the film and the path in the projector.

Finally, I read on a cinematography forum that some people have used used a silicon spray on a cotton swab and rubbed this on the path/gate for a super 8 CAMERA and on the plate of the cartridge. Do you guys think a similar technique would work on the projectors path?

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on March 23, 2012, 07:09 PM:

Hello Royce,my advice is to leave well alone,there are too many
things to go horribly wrong here.By all means lubricate your
films.The best on the market I have found are Crestclean from
Classic Home Cinema in the UK, FilmRenew which is available in
the USA from Urbanski Film & Video,Orland Park,IL 60462
and is also a very gentle lube and cleaner.If the problem persists
even after wiping of film gate and path etc and lubricating your
film.Put the machine in the hands of a repairer who is ofey with
the Eumig machines,but don't try to fix it yourself,that path
is fraught with more failures than successes.Above all,don't
keep putting good film through,keep a spool of test film for this
purpose.

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2