8mm Forum: Double exposure

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Posted by Magnus Irvin (Member # 2983) on March 15, 2012, 05:42 AM:

I am making a short Super8 film using standard 3 min cassettes and would like to try double exposure and cross fading techniques.
Does anyone have experience in doing this?
I am assuming to shoot one scene on a low or changing exposure then rewind and shoot over it. How does one rewind a super8 cassette and how does one time it so that the overlapping scenes are coordinated.
Any advice on this subject will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on March 15, 2012, 07:04 AM:

Hi Magnus, welcome to the forum if your new here.We should start by asking you what camera you intend to use for the shoot ,because only high end super 8 camera's were capable of doing these function's within the camera itself.It would involve taking the film out of the camera to rewind and do the double exposure and this would expose the film to daylight and disaster, lap disolve's are only capable in the camera which fade's one scene over another smoothly in most case's.You would need a canon 1014 or a braun 4056 to do these in the camera or something similar so, what do you have ?.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on March 15, 2012, 07:11 AM:

Hi Magnus,Craven Instruments used to make one that also had
a frame counter and took sound and silent cartridges.Alas as
you probably know Harry Garlick is no longer with us,so try getting
in touch with CHC or Buckingham Films.You could give Dennis a
tinkle at Elizabethan Films 01204-521910 as he usually has a good selection of tackle.Hope I've been of some use.

Posted by Magnus Irvin (Member # 2983) on March 23, 2012, 05:42 AM:

Thanks to those who offered advice regarding double exposure of super8 film. Looks like it's a difficult process without a Craven Backwinder, which is proving to be a difficult object to source so I reckon I'll go for an easier option.
Cheers

Posted by Alexander Lechner (Member # 1548) on March 23, 2012, 06:22 AM:

The Super 8 cartridge is the worst option for double exposure as the film curls up in the cartridge when you rewind (there is no spool it could rewind onto).
Single 8 (same film format as Super 8 but in different cartridge) is a good option with all the better Fujica cameras offering rewind; you could as well get a Quarz DS8-3 for little money and film on Double Super 8 including rewind; last but not least: Standard 8 with loads of great cameras that offer rewind (like most of the Bolex models).

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on March 23, 2012, 08:34 AM:

Lap dissolves are not so hard to achieve on S/8 cameras after all, provided you have the right camera. Some of the best ones are Canon 1014 E and 1014 XL-S as they both handle such a trick by closing the shutter aperture and not having the iris close/open. In both cases dissolves are very smooth and effective and film rarely jams if you avoid these during the first/last meters of film.

Other cameras offering fine lap dissolve facilities are all the higher-end Nizo/Braun's (Professional, 800, 801 and 4056 up to 6080), Sankyo 620 Supertronic, Bauer 715 XL-S, to the best of my knowledge (there ar emany more for sure). Avoid both Leica and Beaulieus: with the former it is hard to achieve (a third hand would be useful) and with the latter ones, in adition to Leica's drawback, lap dissolves are come out being not very beautiful due to the guillotine-type shutter which under some circumstances, make dissolves (even plain ones, to lack) look like a closing eyelid .

Superimpositions are a different kettle of fish and can only be achieve for a handful of seconds usually 4 or 5 due to the restraints in the cartridge design someone has already brought up. With a 200' mag it was different as the entire length of film could be rewound in camera. If you really want to try it on normal S/8 carts, the best option is a Nizo 6080 which rewinds the exact number of frames (90) all the times you want; if you use the customized matte-box and its masks, you can even achive a split screen (up to 4 parts) but, again that's just 5 seconds of screen time at 18 fps...

Posted by John Davis (Member # 1184) on March 23, 2012, 09:51 AM:

Hi Magnus,
at the lower end a number of sound Chinons offered lap dissolves - the later models (80s) are good, the earlier models (70s) have lenses which I suspect were bought from the Milk Marketing Board!
I used to have a Craven backwinder but could never used it successfully so I'd rely on the in-camera solution,
John

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