8mm Forum: What make collecting films on film special?

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Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on February 21, 2013, 01:39 PM:

I was thinking what make collecting films on film special?

The feel of film, threading the projector, even the noise of the projector all add to my enjoyment. Given the so called imperfections of both 8mm, 16mm and 35mm at the cinema. I feel they add to the enjoyment of watching a film. The projector noise soon fades away though.

Although most of my features are mounted on one spool for each film, and my shorts are made up into 'full supporting programme' Changing the reels all add to the enjoyment. Do you look for the reel change cue marks? Of course they have now gone, pixelated away.

The earlier part of my collecting for features is the UK standard of 4x400ft or 8 reels, and the cutdown versions from Ken, Columbia, Walton, Derann, and all the others.

The once deride "Look At Life" & Pathe Pictorials" all add to my enjoyment. I suppose nostalgic is kicking in there.

Trying to think when I first started film collecting, proberly about 1975. The thrill then is still there now, even more now I think.

Buying some super 8 now to add to my collection. Daughter loves Laurel & Hardy films so bought a few of them.

Some of the 400ft versions flow really well and tell the plot well. I do like the 4x400ft format though, most were very well done.

Some releases in the past I did not buy till they were available in scope format later. For some reason editing them down to 4x400ft didn’t bother me, the fact they weren’t in scope did. Double cutting in a way.

What are your feelings on what makes film collecting special?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 21, 2013, 02:52 PM:

When I was a little kid the lady across the street had something pretty unusual in the neighborhood: a home movie outfit. Every couple of months she'd set up her screen and cheapie silent GAF rojector and we watched her family films. I was seven years old, but I thought this was pretty fantastic and I wanted to do it too.

The Sears catalog had a camera and projector package for about $189, which is pretty close to a million when you haven't even got an allowance yet. The thought never quite left my head, though.

When I was in high school I got a minimum wage, part time job and I got my own movie camera and a couple of commercial prints. That Christmas I got a projector and I was in business at last! I had years of filmmaking and collecting, but college and dating and engagement and marriage and homeownership kind of pushed it all aside.

Then the internet came and I had opportunities to do it again that didn't even exist a few years earlier!

Why I do it now is because I have the chance to do it better than I ever did before. It's not just silents, but sound films played through my stereo. It's not a tripod screen, but a 110" diagonal rollup. It's not just one reel shorts, but full features. It's not one Kodak Moviedeck, but a small fleet of Elmos and Eumigs (and the Moviedeck too).

Maybe this is nostalgic, but the present is actually even better!

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on February 21, 2013, 03:14 PM:

Film looks best on film - end of story for me!
[Smile]

Having said that, I buy mostly DVD/Blu these days [Big Grin]

I'm a walkin' contradiction.....

[ February 21, 2013, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Michael O'Regan ]

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on February 21, 2013, 03:17 PM:

Only way to see REEL movies. It has so much more life than the sterile digital picture.

Miss my old cinema and will never visit the new one again

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on February 21, 2013, 03:37 PM:

What's special is, I mostly started by myself with allowances, errands/chores, some part-time work, all to buy my first projector (a SEARS 8mm), then a 16mm (used from school for $5), I got many films (albeit slowly), then the long study time in bulletins and catalogs, the earliest books on film hostory/collecting/storage - While my holdings were slim, I was learning before buying haphazardly, then began in earnest once I knew what I was doing in the gauges - As David rightly says, the whrr of the machine, the image, the tech on how a projector works, and that nice feeling on watching your efforts appear on the screen (or wall more likely) - Shorty

Posted by Ronald Kwiatkowski (Member # 3349) on February 21, 2013, 04:45 PM:

I'm into focusing [Big Grin]

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on February 21, 2013, 04:57 PM:

How often can you do something you did as a kid and enjoy it so much? There aren't too many things that I can think of. Collecting 8mm films is sure one of them. Matter of fact, you kind of relive the past. If you end up getting some of the same films you had then it's even better. History does repeat itself. Especially with this hobby.

PatD

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on February 21, 2013, 05:00 PM:

In addition to agreeing with the comments so far I was trying to narrow it down to a simple concept...

To me it is like owning a piece of the real thing by having a trailer or short or digest or feature of any title...whatever it is, on film.

If that makes any sense...

Bill [Smile]

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on February 21, 2013, 05:20 PM:

Well I love film,maybe too much,as I'm spending probably too much on them of late, but someones got to help keep these dealers etc in position or we'll lose 'em altogether.So come on lads
even if it's only a trailer, once they've gone they're gone.

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on February 21, 2013, 11:51 PM:

I love the fact that it is a way to connect with the past since the technology for watching a movie can be the same today as it was 100 years ago...The content of the movie is only one part of the entire work of art, but to watch the movie on a great looking film print is like owning an original Picasso in my eyes..

Posted by Laksmi Breathwaite (Member # 2320) on February 22, 2013, 12:32 AM:

Wow nice topic David, I agree with Pat,Hugh, Dino, and everybody! Oh what a hobby that I grew up with and got into when TV had its start . I would share my films with the kids from school . And I had a movie theatre in my own house. I could turn off my room lights and act like a projectionist to my friends. I had movies before they came on TV and only played at the local cinema. I guess I like the sight ,feel ,touch ,smell of film. And the real nature of film and having a collectable object like a rare art piece. I love the box art and the sound the projector makes and the flickering lights that pull me into the adventure. I could write a novel about my pastimes with film . Or a movie like Cinema Paradiso!

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 22, 2013, 03:08 AM:

To an outsider it might all seem a bit weird and I guess it is, but once film projection and film itself gets in your system you just cant get it out. Its like a virus spreading and you have got it for life... there is just no way of going back [Smile]

Graham.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on February 22, 2013, 03:29 AM:

Laksmi has put it in a nutshell, really speaking,this hobby of ours
isn't that far off being a disease.

Posted by Oemer Yalinkilic (Member # 86) on February 22, 2013, 04:25 AM:

Most of the collectors, who want watch only a movie in the best quality, switched to 35mm and now to digital.
The S8 collectors are more nostalgic people, they want play Cinema at home and most of the prints in there collection are childhood memories.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on February 22, 2013, 05:00 AM:

I've read somewhere that the Star Wars Super 8 feature was better than the Blu-Ray (ie resolution) and 16mm even has super quality. 70mm is the best with some 10-12 times more resolution than a Blu-Ray, so I don't agree with Oemer, apart from it being a bit nostalgic too.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on February 22, 2013, 05:05 AM:

Nostalgia, rekindling childhood memories, fascinating, showmanship. Just a few words I would use to start with but the biggest part is perhaps the rarity of many films which can still only be found on a film base and the pleasure that can be found trying to locate a title for your own collection. It’s also nice to share time with other home film projectionists and a good social experience away from the reality of day to day life. Escapisms I guess in our own film archives.

Posted by Oemer Yalinkilic (Member # 86) on February 22, 2013, 06:49 AM:

Hi Vidar,
it is a matter of the equipment you have.
Most of you use for Super 8 the perfect equipment (for example Elmo with a 1.0 lens), but for example if you watch a 70mm print of Lawrence of Arabia or the new 4K digital version, than is 35mm, 16mm and Super 8 far away. But the most 70mm prints are red, so I prefer for old classics 35mm technicolor prints. At home is 35mm the best choice for me (only if you have the right compact projector, I have it) but 16mm is better in case of light output (I use Elmo 16CL Xenon). I have a fantastic print of Star Wars on Super 8, but I had in the past a original 16mm print and this was definitely better than a Super 8 print. I have Empire strikes back on 35mm, this is miles away better than the 16mm print I had also in the past.
So the plus for Super 8 is only the Stereo sound.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on February 22, 2013, 07:44 AM:

Yes, but that is what I meant too ... Top 70mm, 35mm, 16mm and not sure Blu-Ray or Super 8 then DVD and VHS an so on

I didn't mean Super 8 was better than the others reel formats, if I gave that impression. I plan on a 35mm portable at one time.

16mm Star Wars? So that does exist?

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on February 22, 2013, 08:00 AM:

Hi Vidar, yes there are 16mm prints of this film, Sabucat had one
for sale some years ago in the "Big Reel".

Posted by Oemer Yalinkilic (Member # 86) on February 22, 2013, 08:19 AM:

Hi Vidar,
my first 16mm projector was very bad and I didn´t want change with 8mm, but after I got the Elmo 16CL Xenon, it was much better than Super 8. My first 35mm projektor was also very bad (east german TK35mm) and again I didn´t want change, but now my portable projektor philips FP3 with 2000 meter reel capacity (two reels for one feature) is great. It is also very quiet like my 16mm Elmo.
And with my 50mm Schneider lens I need the same distance for a big image. Only the storage space for film is a problem.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on February 22, 2013, 08:29 AM:

I would imagine Oemer, it would be a very pleasurable experience
watching your films in 35mm, does it get any better than that.

Posted by Oemer Yalinkilic (Member # 86) on February 22, 2013, 08:51 AM:

Yes, it can be better, I have friends with realy nice hometheaters. There is also a guy in Australia he can watch at home real 3 panel Cinerama.
But belive me, watching my silent castle horror films back in the 70´s was more fun as it is today.

Posted by Matt McBride (Member # 3311) on February 22, 2013, 09:00 AM:

Oemer is right about storage for 35mm. Being I am a big 35mm collector, storage becomes quiet an issue. It becomes even more of an issue when you don't have a compact 35mm projector. Like my self who has the commercial setup with platter and all.

I have always loved movies. I watched them all the time growing up and I still do of course. When I started to work as a projectionist in high school and college, I instantly fell in love with mechanics behind film projection. Even when I finally quit that job I knew I would have to get that setup for the true movie experience. I was always/ have always wanted to watch movies in their full glory and best presentation they can provide. Sadly now a days, most movie theaters do not provide such quality. Though on the other side of the coin, had the switch to digital never been made, I would never been able to afford such commercial film equipment.

Posted by Oemer Yalinkilic (Member # 86) on February 22, 2013, 09:20 AM:

I´m not worry about the change to digital. The quality is not very bad for new film, which was shot digital.
I remember the movie "Singin in the rain", as they presented the new "sound movie". Nobody wanted the change to sound movie. The same problem was with color, lot of actress did not want to play in a color movie. Do you realy think it would be better if the cinemas still show only silent black and with movies?

But I love movies I watched as a child/teenager and I collect this features and the best way for this old movies is 35mm, 16mm and a little bit Super 8.

Posted by Richard Bock (Member # 1926) on February 22, 2013, 09:32 AM:

Great simple question and very interesting responses.
I was fortunate enough to work as an apprentice for three years, to the film director Nicholas Ray. Nick thought, ate, digested and slept with film. He loved as he used to say, 'the stink and feel of film'. The Movieoloa was the perfect machine to apprentice on (Nick didn't care for flat bed editors) because he was able to get his whole body into the editing process. The mechanical nature of it is also a big part of the appeal.

It's the same in the hobby of collecting. I focus mainly on Griffith and Chaplin and silent features and comedies. There is something to be said to watching these masters in the medium they were made in. And here I am threading on a little 8mm projector the celluloid films that shook the world. Being in touch with over 100 years of film history on these strands of celluloid will aide me in my understanding and love of films and with others who come to see these "art works" as someone here has mentioned..

[ February 22, 2013, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Richard Bock ]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on February 22, 2013, 04:16 PM:

For me, the joy of film collecting has many components. First, the film itself, just a reel of celluloid, containing thousands of tiny still pictures, but those reels of film also hold forever the masterful performances of the great artists of the past 100 years of cinema. That wonderful machine, the film projector, brings these performances to life through a very simple mechanism, which is no different really than that invented by Edison or Lumiere. So running film really keeps you in touch with the original medium of motion pictures. Something that the digital disc is far removed from.
And then we have all the interest of running and maintaining our beautiful projectors (was a more perfect machine ever invented?), the cleaning and storing of our precious films, and of course enjoying them on a big screen in a comfortable and friendly home theater.
Plus, the film conventions, books and magazines on film, the film forums, and all the friends we make as a result.
Just a wonderful hobby.

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on February 23, 2013, 04:44 AM:

It looks like most feel the same way about film. I started looking at my old issues of film magazines last year, even buying some of the older issues. The last ones were ACW from 1958 the year when I first got interested in films, I was 55 this year.

Although I had quite a few films when "Star Wars" 200ft came out. That was a fantastic release. I showed it at work one dinner time, my work mates were "WOW"

I still get a "WOW" now watching it and the all rest of my films.

Splicing the films together, and making up 'full supporting programme'

Although kicking myself after looking at "Home Movie Magazine" Movieland had ad in for "Hollywood And The Stars" "Monsters 2x400ft and I missed it. [Frown]

Only got 400ft version.

Its still got that special magic of film on film whatever the gauge.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 23, 2013, 01:55 PM:

Dino id absolutely right. For me, it is an "organic" connection with the past film-goers.

I'll make it quick, (as I've said this before in "long form") ...

When I watch the Laurel and Hardy short, "Big Business" restored on DVD on a projection TV, sure it looks nice, but it really feels "distant" to me ...

However, when I project a super 8 print of this, film grain, occasional scratched and all, I really feel like I'm back in that movie theater, in 1929 along with an audience, and I am drawn in.

That's the allure of film to me! That lovely, romantic connection!

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on February 23, 2013, 04:02 PM:

Think I've said before digital feels too clinical. I feel that even with the so called imperfections I would watch a film.

The best quality on film I have seen is in London, "Octopussy" at the Qdeon Marble Arch was very good. "The Empire Strikes Back" also in London was really good.

I saw "Indiana Jones And The Temple Of Doom" in Scottsdale AZ this was also excellent presentation. But the best was Aliens I saw this in Costa Masa, massive screen rear sound wonder if this was 70mm? When the creature in the specimen jar jumped to the glass I'll swear everyone's popcorn also jumped.

Going to my local cinema to see a video soon they have "The Adventures Of Robin Hood" it changed to digital about 6 months ago.

Film Forever though.

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