8mm Forum: I DON"T TRUST FILM DEALERS WHO DON'T SHOW CLIPS

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Posted by Laksmi Breathwaite (Member # 2320) on May 04, 2013, 11:09 PM:

FILM DEALERS WHO DON'T SHOW CLIPS are hiding the condition of the film for future sales I don't trust them. Have you all ever come across some dealer who has a film and won't even show a camera picture next to the sun light or light, They just stall you till the purchase has been made. Or you buy the film and no one ever said anything about scratches. Then you are just stuck with it. Osi told me about another MAGIC SWORD up on eBay that I should get it but the guy just said rosy and the print was old or very good . I asked him for film shots or a better description? But he stalled till the end of the auction. Most of the prints I have seen have turned red . And when I ask this person if the print was red or pink like the film stock I had or have after many years he never answered my emails. That really burns me up!

Posted by Joe Balitzki (Member # 438) on May 04, 2013, 11:24 PM:

Since they were obviously hiding the actual condition of the print they did you a favor by putting you off. Had you bought the print, you would have wasted your $. What I am seeing more often nowadays is carefully worded descriptions that leave out what defects/issues a print has. If a print is color, unless its stated that its on a Low-Fade print stock its prudent to think that the color is faded and/or red due to the age of the print. I have purchased prints from forum members who were guilty of the above. And they certainly knew what they were doing as they are not new to the hobby. Its even worse and more of a gamble when a seller is a novice. Finally, expecting a print to not have any wear at all is going to lead to frustration at times as the majority of prints for sale now are used. How much wear one finds acceptable varies with the individual. Sure there are Mint prints out there but they are slowly disappearing.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on May 05, 2013, 06:30 AM:

The title is little bit confusing for me. Dealers in my opinion are those like CHC, Independent 8, Paul Foster, etc. And the don't show the clips. They just don't have the time.

What you meant I think was Ebay sellers.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 05, 2013, 08:38 AM:

Dealers can be suspect as well ...

I won't mention the name of the dealer, but I gave him the "three strikes and your out" condition and I haven't bought from that person ever since, as I got three prints that were far from great condition ...

I bought a Three Stooges 3D (the Derann 400ft "pardon my backfire'), and when I got it, it had a terrible film lab scratch down the WHOLE print, a terrible lab defect.

I bought a print of Hoppity Goes to Town from the person. The person stated the film as "The Best copy I have seen of this title in years", it was fufi, but it was also a purple mess. If that was the best he had seen in years, then he must have seen absolute shyte!

I forget the title of the other one, but it was atated to be in very good condition. Well, the physical condition of the print was good, but that should include the color!

... and being that these were bought from the UK, I would have spent even more just to get my money back, shipping the crap back to him.

... so, established dealers aren't always to be trusted. Make sure that when the seller describes "condition", to include the color as well!

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on May 05, 2013, 09:37 AM:

During the Derann's days, I asked the same question about the color to Gary, he said that he did not grade the color but the physical condition. It was discussed here before.

Super8warehouse (Bert) is an example of good dealer that grades color. At every film list he has, always mentioned if the film has faded or excellent color.

Posted by Laksmi Breathwaite (Member # 2320) on May 05, 2013, 10:11 AM:

Thank you for your comments Joe and Osi. Winbert I DON'T TRUST is just what I state not just eBay but everyone who is selling a film. If films had a grading system like the CGC it would be easy to buy everything. CGC comics are not allowed refunds you know what you are getting. This guy Super8warehouse (Bert) sounds great he has the right Idea. I like REEL IMAGE (Steve)Just gorgeous in all departments!

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on May 05, 2013, 10:16 AM:

Really weird post as globally everyone has the choice who to sell or buy with and by what means. For me I still put a great deal of trust in all cine folk particularly keeping in mind films on our sub standard gauges can date back to the early 1920’s. Perhaps its time to get a little realistic? These are vintage films printed on a multitude of film bases and change hands more times than a base ball in many cases. If we are talking about fleabay you can pretty much guarantee these films have seen many projectors and owners some of which will have no idea how to change a lamp let alone a fuse.

As for dealers, Derann and Perry’s Movies will always have my greatest respect for perfect service along with after sales service. Perry’s here in the UK are still going and having purchased recently with them a number of times I really appreciate the expert advice from them when purchasing. Those of us who dealt with Derann since our childhood oh so many years ago will know just what I am talking about. Bringing fleabay to the fore just outlines its pitfalls and how important our remaining dealers are to us as cine film collectors.

Laksmi. If you ask Perry’s Movies if a print has gone red or going you will get an honest answer. You will not find that facility of feabay for sure.

We are oh so lucky to have new prints available as well and my goodness Reel Image is full of so many its a case of where to start. Start saving your pocket money and embrace these brand new films and keep our hobby going.

Posted by Laksmi Breathwaite (Member # 2320) on May 05, 2013, 10:27 AM:

Really weird post ? I don't think so? We have a lot of new collectors and many coming everyday. Lee you and most old timers must know and trust but I started this topic for the new guys. And as Osi and Joe have stated he has been burnt. And I'm sure many more who weren't so lucky that did not buy new prints. My post still stands touché.

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on May 05, 2013, 11:05 AM:

A few years I bought in 16mm "The Wild Geese" from a well known dealer. I must say it was a beautiful print, really excellent colour and sound. The problem, sound was French. I had to send it back and what annoyed me it cost me more money to send it back.

There's a ebayer at the moment who only puts 8mm Format, he does not state standard or super, you have to contact him to ask. He does give a god description.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on May 05, 2013, 12:25 PM:

He also has a great sense of humour,going by the prices he asks
David. As for dealers being a bit cautious with the truth in film
descriptions, well to be fair,imagine how he feels at having to check each and every print including soundtracks.Then again
someone must have sold him a dodgy print to start with,he didn't
create it.Again I speak as I find and Perry's are a great little company to deal with,as are Buckingham Films, first class service
all the way.I bought a 16mm print from CHC that was described as fading, the colour was excellent,and at a bargain price.Super8warehouse is another first class act, I've had some
excellent purchases from Bert.as with Paul Foster.So to be fair no one gets it right all the time.Thank the Lord we still have some left.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on May 05, 2013, 01:33 PM:

Hey Laksmi less of the 'old timers' [Eek!]

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on May 06, 2013, 11:58 AM:

Hi, As an old timer, I can only agree with what others have said, Use the regular dealers. They price the films according to the condition. You take a chance with E bay and prices expected are often ludicrous. It has to be remembered that second hand prints are almost bound to be less than perfect. The situation was very much worsened by the manufacturers introducing self threading projectors. many purchasers were never really enthusiasts and did not bother to learn "the trade" as it were. Ken Finch.

Posted by Joe Balitzki (Member # 438) on May 07, 2013, 03:05 PM:

I have gotten used prints with the sloppiest splices one can imagine. Some were so bad that they probably caused damage. When the prints were new due to their expense you would think splices would have been done more carefully but sadly, no. Some practice is necessary to make a good splice but some obviously couldn't be bothered.

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