quote:

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Hi Phil,
thanks for the answer. Now I have got more to ask:
How come you list so much new releases on your homepage but got so little titles in stock? The last few times, most of the titles I asked for were "not in stock".
When are you able to sell a copy of "Pluto's Playmate" for example? Or "For Better or for Nurse"? Can you tell that in advance? Or better: Make it clear on your home page, wich titles are availalbe now.
I find it quite frustrating always to hear "not available at the moment"; I am sure this does not help your business.
Please don't get me wrong - I don not attack or accuse you here; I'm sure there is a good reason for the fact I am complaining about. All I want to say is: Make it understandable or clear, wich of the new titles you are able to sell at the moment. And when to expect the other titles.
It's great you still churning out so many new titles on Super 8mm or 16mm and I am very grateful for that! Only they should not be so hard to obtain!
Best regards,
Michael Scheck

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Please don't get me wrong: I do not want to start a Phil-bashing here. I hope to get something out of your answers, like suggestions for business-improvements to Phil...
 

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Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on May 18, 2013, 07:47 AM:
 
I've ordered films too, on the list, but clearly not updated often. Regular 8 especially, I got a reply, Pit and the Pendulum was not available, but a couple of months later, it was still on there. And there's stuff he can't find on the list (bet he has a lot though) ... But it's not very updated, I guess we'll have to live with that
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on May 18, 2013, 07:50 AM:
 
I'm sure Phil will answer you Michael, but with the cost of filmstock
these days, I don't think that there are any dealers who are going
to have shelves of titles that won't sell.The days of stockists keeping racks of film (new) are long gone.Notice Steve Osbourne
and the "Capt. America" release which is pre order.The best way to view the lists, are whatever new title catches your eye, the chances
are it will involve a bit of patience, especially if it is a feature.
Hope this helps.
 

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Posted by Fabrizio Mosca (Member # 142) on May 18, 2013, 07:54 AM:
 
As far as I understood in these years I've been a customer from CHC, they don't usually have lots of new prints in shop. What happens is that they have the first batch of prints and then, once they have finished them, they order it when needed. Times may be long from ordering, as they need to have at least two orders in order to have a film printed (the lab prints two copies at the same time, it's not possible to have only one printed), but they always give you the print you order from them.
Also Derann, some times, had the same way of proceeding, but Derann usually had a bigger number of prints in stock, so you were able to receive them right after your order was put.

OF course this doesn't match if you want to have a print right after your order, and I understand it may be frustraiting or make you angry, but hey... we're collectors and sometimes you wait years before finding the prints you're looking for, so why not wait for some time after placing an order for a new copy
 

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Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on May 18, 2013, 08:05 AM:
 
I was wondering why 'Shocking Affair' was listed for such a long time, then when I tried for it...gone
 

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Posted by Michael Scheck (Member # 114) on May 18, 2013, 09:06 AM:
 
@Hugh and Fabrozio:
I do understand your point. BUT how DO I actually know when a wanted print IS available? Phil could point that out on his home page (for example "Pluto's Playmate now ready to order"; or "I will take orders for Pluto's Playmate now). But he doesn't do that. He also doesn't give you a e-mail notice, when a wanted release is ready to buy.
At present it's "hit or miss" with customers asking (most of the time I try it's "miss"), and that is what is frustrating.
 

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Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on May 18, 2013, 09:32 AM:
 
Or better yet ... Items in stock : 2 (so you know how fast you need to be)
 

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Posted by Fabrizio Mosca (Member # 142) on May 18, 2013, 10:15 AM:
 
Michael, I agree that it's frustrating but consider that all the copies are "on special order", expecially the ones that have been printed years ago.
On the "News and events" section of CHC website, usually there are the prints that are available, but for all the older ones think that they are out of stock and have to be printed.

Unfortunately it's the problem in collecting rare and costly items

@Vidar: good suggestion, but you should check the website every day or so

It would be nice to have a newsletter via email with all the titles available and possible prints for the next quarter
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on May 18, 2013, 10:55 AM:
 
Best advice I could offer, is to contact Phil and ask if the print is
available now or when it is available.I take the point on old titles
not being deleted when sold,that is frustrating,but bear in mind
that it is a one man show now,as Phil does all this stuff himself,
and with no staff now,it must be a strain.
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 18, 2013, 12:41 PM:
 
at least, when it comes to new prints of features, shorts, ect. (and especially with features), these are not printed one at a time, but at least two copies and so, with the investment that it costs to make a feature print in and of itself, Phil (and other possibly existing super 8 producers/distributors), isn't going to inv est in a printof a feature unless ....

the buyer already has cash in hand and has paid in advance. Phil is very good at getting your print to you, though the time to get the print CAN vary.

There's the potential of that other print being able to sale sometimes in the very near future.

I know that the collector would rather that Phil had the brand new print already in stock, (as we are all rather into getting it right now when we have the itch to get it!), but the realities of making brand new prints don't allow for that.

OSI
 

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Posted by Michael Scheck (Member # 114) on May 18, 2013, 01:14 PM:
 
@Hugh and Osi:
That's not my point. I am avare of how difficult it is and how big the risk is.
BUT: Communication has to be better! If he WANTS to sell (and he should!), he must communicate. That's what bothers me. Sometimes I wont even get an answer to my request. And if I get one it's often "Sorry, not in stock". Why doesn't he give his customers the option of "find another two or three buyers, and I'll get the requested print ready"?
He does a great and financially risky job in churning out new releases - that can't be praised high enough! But it is a mistery to me how he actually sells them! There is some info on his home page about what can actually be bought. But it's such a mess, you need a guide to get through it.
I know - he does it all by himself. I am actually thinking about a way of being of help with this...
 

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Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on May 18, 2013, 01:58 PM:
 
Its a couple of years since I last visit Phil's shop, and I think he has made a few changes. DVD's have gone, I bought some 00 gauge models railway stuff, and in the rear was the films, loads of them.

Think about that, film and model trains. PARADISE. (Don't take the wife)
 

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Posted by Fabrizio Mosca (Member # 142) on May 18, 2013, 02:36 PM:
 
Michael, sometimes before ordering at Phil older items, I check with some friends collectors if they're interested in buying the same film (and the same they do with me). In a couple of times I ordered more than one copy so to have it re-printed easily
Maybe the forum can be a chance to get such collectors and gather the two copies needed for printing
 

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Posted by Michael Scheck (Member # 114) on May 19, 2013, 03:47 AM:
 
I just created a blog trying to bring a little clearance into Phils new releases (and hopefully many customers!).
I just sent him an e-mail. Hope he will accept this "little help from a friend"...
Here's the (not yet complete) blog site deicated with gratitude to Phil and his great support of "the hobby": http://chcinema.wordpress.com/

Oh, and hopefully some of you guys can support me too: I need some synopsis on "This is Cinemascope" and "Beer, Fags an Women" for the new site. Please send a few lines by PN or e-mail. Thanks!
 

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Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on May 19, 2013, 04:51 AM:
 
Hi Michael,

I share your frustration as many times on the phone and at the BFCC, I mentioned to Phil and Denise it would be nice if we could know what titles are in stock and what are not. I cant remember his reply at the time but he has'nt done anything about it. There was a '*' by titles which were in stock but I think this has not been updated recently. Ive bought many shorts from Phil over the last few years (but not recently) and most times Ive been lucky but the situation is probably harder now.

I think the bigger problem now is the the Labs are taking longer to get any super 8 produced. When Phil gets a new batch of titles in Fabrizio is correct that the 'News and Events' page is the best place to look but im puzzled why he hasnt had any prints of Capt America in. Last time I phoned was several weeks ago. Or has he had prints in but thay have all been sold but there was no mention of that.

Michael, Why not come to the BFCC or Blackpool this year and you will see loads of New prints from CHC. Im sure he still has many in stock, just not the titles you want. Look at last years photos.

But it would be nice to know whats in stock when looking to buy some new prints.

Graham S
 

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Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on May 19, 2013, 11:36 AM:
 
why not all come to Columbus' CINEVENT
 

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Posted by Fabrizio Mosca (Member # 142) on May 19, 2013, 01:41 PM:
 
Graham, re. Captain America I'm also waiting for my copy (I made my order in November when it was advertized on his website) but Phil told me some less than one month ago that he's still waiting for the copies from the lab.
 

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Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on May 19, 2013, 08:59 PM:
 
November??????

C'mon guys, time to give it up.
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on May 20, 2013, 09:09 AM:
 
I agree with Rob, if I relied only on new releases to continue in this
hobby, I think I would be looking for a new hobby.Thankfully there
are still plenty of secondhand films on all gauges.New film release purchases for me, are stone dead, too costly and too long a wait.
 

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on May 20, 2013, 10:11 AM:
 
It's a different world out there. This is no longer a one step process. Prints are so expensive now (anything longer than a trailer) that dealers must wait for confirmed orders before giving the lab the go ahead, which will then schedule a print run when time is available. Many prints are shipped mute and audio is then recorded at another location. Factor in shipping from Germany, where here in the US a box of prints can sit in customs for over a month, and you have an interminable delay in the arrival of your pined for piece of celluloid.

Doug
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on May 20, 2013, 02:47 PM:
 
I appreciate all the hard work that goes into these releases Doug,
and for a lot of folks,it's well worth the wait for a favourite film.
For me though, I think the initial outlay,coupled with customs
charges (if brought from USA), I won't include postage costs as
someone has to bring it, does tend to jack up the price of the item
which if I'm honest would have to be a very special movie to warrant it, and the movies of the past few years aren't in the
"film I must have" league.
 

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Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on May 20, 2013, 08:17 PM:
 
I tend to agree. I love this hobby, but I don't think I could tie up several hundreds of dollars (US) for what could be 6-8 months or longer on a film print (albeit brand new) and risk that it could be defective upon arrival. Way back when... It was different. Film companies were plentiful and thriving. I tip my hat to anyone willing to print new titles for collectors. There's just too many miles between myself and the vendor(s) for me to feel comfortable with it all.
 

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Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on May 21, 2013, 04:33 AM:
 
I mean, don't get me wrong, I think the fact that people are still making the effort with new releases is admirable and to be applauded.

But with such long and uncertain waiting times, together with such high prices, you have to ask whether this is really a sustainable situation.
 

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Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on May 21, 2013, 04:47 AM:
 
As the years click by you come to appreciate, anything work having is worth waiting for. If we have a few months wait for that extra special delivery from the trade it also makes it that much more exciting when our special new film arrives. Lets be honest, in the 21st century we are lucky to have new releases let alone a shop to walk in and buy projector parts, films and the like. I’m sure everyone will be at Classics next open day as will we once again to support our hobby and our remaining UK dealer with a shop.
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 21, 2013, 12:29 PM:
 
Well, we have been a rather insane lot for years, haven't we, paying more than top dollar form what we could get digitally for a fiver?

... and I wouldn't have it any other way. Though I must say, if I want one of the newer releases coming out today, I literally have to get one second hand, as ...

1. Can't afford a brand new feature these days.
2. Lets face it, new prints these days are like cars. You drive it off the lot and it's just dropped a few thousand right there. The same for the new super 8 print.
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on May 21, 2013, 01:48 PM:
 
That's a good point Brad made,just suppose you've been waiting
like an expectant parent for this Godsend,and it has a printing
fault like a frameline centre screen.Once upon a time, it was a
quick 'phone call to Derann or whoever, and a replacement was
forthcoming by return post, alas these folk are long gone, so I
would hope that there is at least some sort of quality control
in place to alleviate the possibility of suicides. It is a good thing
that new releases are being done for people who enjoy recent
films, but it does give you pause for thought.
 

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Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on May 21, 2013, 02:14 PM:
 
I’m not so sure Osi. I really believe with the demise of professional CINEma i.e. film screenings as opposed to the uptake on digital screenings we will see a great increase in those acquiring film prints in the future. I guess we have now passed the ‘Derann issued this’ stage and we are now seeing many collectors of which are new to this hunting down film from other distributors such as DCR, Perry’s and the like. It’s all very interesting to watch the new wave come into collecting and home cinema, but perhaps we have a duty to point newcomers to those producing brand new film prints against all the odds?
 

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Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on May 21, 2013, 05:16 PM:
 
Thanks, Hugh. Exactly my point. I may weigh the value of having a brand new print of something I've longed to own for years such as "Portrait Of Jennie" or "The Bishop's Wife", but if after waiting months for its arrival I get a print with no sound, bad synch, bad focus or a stripe peeling from the edge of the film while it's playing - who and where do you go from there? Now you've got a print that's worthless and you're out all the money you've paid, too. Thanks, but I'll pass. I would probably feel more comfortable buying something used from a collector whom I trust is honest with his/her description of the print I'm purchasing.
 

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Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on May 21, 2013, 05:33 PM:
 
If you ever have a faulty print just send it back to who you ordered it from and you will get a replacement providing its not a complete sellout of course. I once had a film with bad stripe peeling off which I bought from CHC. After phoning Phil I sent it back and he sent me back a perfect replacement quickly. Phil then sent back the faulty print back to the lab. Im sure Steve will do the same providing he has a small stock of them.

Graham S
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on May 21, 2013, 06:21 PM:
 
I have no doubt that Steve would try to rectify any faults Graham,
but if its a film of one of one of the Star Wars epics or something
similar,where there are just two prints being struck,imagine the
disappointment that those two people who have been patiently
waiting for their film,then discover its a bad print.I don't wish to
dishearten or undermine these individuals involved,but you take
the point that if there are no proper checks,then someone sooner
or later is going to land a dodgey print and the whole process
starts again.Fingers crossed it doesn't happen.
Incidentaly. I'm sure I saw a print of "I Dream of Jennie" on your
ebay last week Brad.
 

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on May 21, 2013, 08:41 PM:
 
Sorry, I don't understand this line of thought at all. Let's not buy anything because it might be defective, we might be disappointed and OH NO! we'll have to settle for getting a replacement or a complete refund.
You have totally lost me here.

Doug
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on May 22, 2013, 03:41 AM:
 
It's quite simple Doug, in my time, I have had to return prints for all manner of faults,these being new films.They would be duly
rectified or replaced,the turn over time being a matter of days.
At no time have I ever been reimbursed for postage for these
oversights,it was always my loss. Now we have a situation where
people are waiting six months or more for prints, hoping there
will be no faults on them, and if there are, we are cheerily told to
return them for replacement,as I already asked,if it has been a
small print run like two copies,then that involves another lottery
and another six months wait.All I asked, is there a quality control check as surely the labs are not that busy now that film in cinemas has been elbowed out.The best form of control I think
should be financial, half the money up front,the rest when the
customer is satisfied.It strikes me that the 8mm customer is getting the service he got in the past from the labs,second best.I can't imagine a professional company being asked to wait six months for his film to be sorted.
 

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Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on May 22, 2013, 03:51 AM:
 
Even I’m with you now Hugh.
I see what you mean although I have not yet had a dud new film from Classic Home Cinema or Steve either thankfully. Looking back over many years if ever I had a faulty new film a professional trader they always replaced it. Collectors Club were excellent and rapid in swapping prints on the couple of occasions I sent a film back as were Derann of course. I’m sure we don’t need to spell out that Classic and Steve make very little from the sale of new 8mm prints and that it is more from love of film than anything else folks.
 

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Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on May 22, 2013, 05:04 AM:
 
No matter what you buy, DVD, CAR, FOOD, you stand a chance of getting something faulty now a days, sadly this applies to films too.

Bought new Ford C-Max it had five recalls for faults, I've had to return more DVD's than I ever had films. And don't ask about beef burgers

Most problems with films they were out of sync, or had excessive side ways weave. Because the dealers carried stock, the replacement was usually sent by return of post.

Sorry to say although I still buy used films, the few new releases don't excite me. Too much CGI/CGS. The last new releases I bought were some advert reels and trailers.

Picking up on what Hugh says about returns, I was never offered a refund on sending films back either.

Looking at my old film magazines, Bill Davison was the champion who helped get print quality improved. Buck Film Labs were one of the best and Studio Film, are a couple that spring to mind from the 70's. Although if the master is not good, the print wont be.

I had to wait for "King Kong" on pre-order.
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on May 22, 2013, 06:59 AM:
 
I remember Bill Davison getting a roasting from some managing
director of a film company,it could have been Capitol Film,when
this guy had been sounding the trumpet at getting a film deal
for a handful of B/W silent film "Taste the Blood of Dracula" etc,
the little 200's that had poor quality.When Bill took him to task,
the chap tried to fend off the questions by citing Bill as just an
enthusiast that knew nothing of film deals, this was in the mid
'70s.Bill was right, what was the point of silent clips when there
was a plethora of sound projectors being launched.
Getting back to the topic,I firmly believe the labs are taking
collectors for a ride in the time for striking a silent print,but
that's just my opinion.They might take a different view if they
were paid on completion.
 

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Posted by Michael Scheck (Member # 114) on May 22, 2013, 07:12 AM:
 
I for my part am glad that there are enthusiasts out there who, like Phil, try to keep the trade alive!
I never encountered a faulty print with CHC so far - that's more "hit" than with Derann, where I occasionally got a "miss" to be sent back.
 

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Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on May 22, 2013, 09:56 AM:
 
I don't know why printing has to take so long. I'm extremely grateful that the German lab still print Super 8 but it's very unfortunate that there apparently isn't a single other lab in the world offering the service, as that obviously means no competition. The lab may be receiving increasing demand for a range of specialised and labour-intensive services (e.g. printing Super 8 prints from Super 8 negative stock), because they are not offered elsewhere. If they have too much work, that's a 'problem' that many labs would welcome, but a S8 distributor is unable to say that they are considering taking their custom elsewhere. The same applied to Derann; they were by no means completely happy with the service they got from Film Labs North - where careless handling even caused certain negatives to be destroyed - but a member of staff told me they couldn't complain too much about faulty printing, etc, or the lab would consider it more trouble than it's worth to carry on. In retrospect, what a tragedy it is that no one bought the Super 8 printer from Film Labs North, or (earlier) the one owned by Perry's Movies. Preumably both ended up as scrap metal. Buck Labs still exist so I wonder if the printer they used to produce outstanding prints is still there?

I sympathise with the concerns about faulty prints and how long it might take to get issues resolved. Even when Derann were producing new releases, such problems used to drive me nuts and if I obtained a feature and found every reel was fine, that was cause for celebration. I may be fussier than some but I'd estimate that roughly around 30% of all the individual reels I obtained were for one reason or another significantly worse than the best copies produced of the same item, although some could of course be improved by re-recording or access to an equaliser, if the slitting was rough along the sprocket edge.

However, on the whole, I've found the quality control to be good at the German lab and I've had cause to complain about far fewer prints that applied to Derann, Walton and some other distributors. I think the only print I've had with poor sound from CHC goes back to the days when Derann did the recording. A couple of prints I've received from Steve Osborne have had scratches - which may have happened during recording - but Steve kindly replaced a trailer that I told him about, and didn't even ask me to send back the scratched one, so I commend the great service he offers. I agree that ideally the postage cost of returning anything faulty should be reimbursed, but personally I'd be philsophical about this nowadays, knowing that the remaining distributors are doing it mainly for their love of film collecting rather than for profit.

Everyone has to weigh up whether supporting new releases makes sense from their own perspective, taking into account what the releases are. Yes they are expensive, but as someone pointed out on another thread, they have 'only' risen to the equivalent of what collectors used to pay in the mass market days around the late 1970s. Surely the era when many of us had the most trouble affording films was the great days of the 80s and 90s when although prices were much cheaper, we were being deluged with so many great releases that it was tempting to spend hundreds of £s/$s every month! In my case, there have been hardly any new releases in the last couple of years that I have wanted, so I'll buy a print of 'Captain America' as it sounds like a fun and repeatable release that I'd enjoy, as well as it being a way of showing support for the initiative that Steve O and CHC have shown in producing the first proper digest since the 1980s. And in these days of used prints selling for far higher sums than they used to, I'm sure that some of us can pull out a few films that we rarely, if ever, feel inclined to run, in order to help finance something new. And if the biggest 8mm Forum can't wholeheartedly get behind new releases, who will?

Although the number of releases is a tiny fraction of what used to appear, I feel they are still important in attracting the sort of interest in the hobby that Lee has described. I'm sure that some younger people are attracted by film collecting being a hobby that's still alive; I think there would be a psychological shift if it becomes something completely from the past. At my shows, I find you can't beat screening a recent trailer for surprising the audience and creating a 'buzz'.

[ May 22, 2013, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]
 

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Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on May 22, 2013, 09:56 AM:
 
Same with me- I have had NO problems what-so-ever with any of the prints that I've purchased from CHC OR Reel Image. The quality of these prints have been perfect. So that's certainly positive.

I remember back when CHC was just starting (was it the late 90's?), there were a couple of feature films that had some problems. But it seems to me that CHC has made leaps and bounds since that time. And Steve (Reel Image) has always made sure the customer gets a top quality print.

James.
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on May 22, 2013, 11:53 AM:
 
I still think the onus is on the lab, if they got payment on completion,I'm sure it would be a different story, nothing like
incentive schemes to focus the mind, I know, I've worked under
them.
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 22, 2013, 01:04 PM:
 
Lee ...

Lets face it. If a person buys "Titannic" for a cool thousand, I highly doubt that, as a general rule, that original buyer will get a thousand for a re-sale. Possible, but unlikely.

Of course, I don't all things film wise, but it doesn't seem likely.

... but then, a someone paying a thousand dollars for a print of Titannic, I doubt that they are buying for resale, so the thousand is well spent, as far as they are concerned.
 

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Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on May 22, 2013, 04:57 PM:
 
Osi, The money I have paid for new films over the years, you are spot on with your last post. I have only ever sold maybe six films in my years of collecting. Only one did I make anything on.

I don't think I would sell any more now though. Of the films I sold I only wish I still had one of them.

The last few new films I have bought from Derann in their last couple of years were OK, and CHC prints were OK although the sound suffered from wow on two of the features. Everything else was good.

What New releases do collectors want? Starting a new topic What Do You Want In Super 8.

A P.S. for Osi. The Thunderbird Films catalogue is almost ready. Should be up at the weekend.
 

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