8mm Forum: OSI's mag striping service ...

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 21, 2013, 04:52 PM:

OK folks, I can officially announce this ...

In the near future, (please, do not ask me the actual date), I will begin offering a mag striping service for super 8 prints (sorry, no mag striping for standard 8mm).

Please note: This will be glue mag stripe service and not liquid magnetic striping. Also, I am betting (I have not recieved the Bolex unit yet), that this will be one stripe mono mag stripe. While I agree that stereo striping is certainly better, mono striping is better than no striping at all.

However, I ask the forums help in a number of ways.

1. Does anyone know of or have two wind/rewinds for super 8 available, as I will have to build a "workstation" for this service. That in itself is not a problem, but I do need the winds.

This will, by the way, (in my opinion) be a subsiduary of "Reel Images", as he is allowing me the use of the striper in the first place.

Please do not enundate me with striping requests right now, as I have to learn the unit first, as well as set up the work station, before I can actually set up any actual jobs to stripe, as well as discuss with Steve what I should charge to do so. Personally, I think of this as a pleasure, and not a profit making venture, but if I will be accpeting feature film stripings, well, that can take awhile.

I will let everyone know when I am ready to take on "paying jobs".

Lastly, while I am asking Steve where to secure the glue, stripe for the jobs, I would highly appreciate anybody in the forum community who could help me secure these needs, as I'm fairly sure that this stripe is not too common, the glue would probably be easier to secure.

OSI

[ May 22, 2013, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Osi Osgood ]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 22, 2013, 01:32 PM:

Hey folks ...

I haven't recieved the striping machine as of yet, but here is a link to a website or page concerning Bolex, and has an old manuel with a picture of the mag striping machine on it ...

http://www.apecity.com/manuals/pdf/bolex_super8_equipment_brochure_ver2.pdf

I have recieved word that this appears to only allow up to a 400ft capacity for mag striping at a time, so please keep that in mind.

OSI

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on May 22, 2013, 01:57 PM:

Osi good to read you are getting into striping which is well worth doing. I used to do striping demo’s in the old cine clubs along with many others I expect to help fill club programmes which was really fun. We used to stripe a members film then record a sound track onto it. Good luck with your exciting new venture!

Posted by Joerg Polzfusz (Member # 602) on May 23, 2013, 12:08 PM:

Hi,

some more data:
http://www.super8data.com/database/sound_list/soundstripers_bolex/bolex_n8s8.htm

Jörg

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on May 23, 2013, 03:14 PM:

Best of luck with your new venture Osi.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on May 23, 2013, 03:40 PM:

I take my hat off to anyone who can stripe super 8mm film.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on May 23, 2013, 05:52 PM:

Many moons ago I used to do my own with a Rexette striper and it worked well however cleaning the film first, particulary the edge where you want the stripe stick is critical.

The process was very time consuming, thats when I made the shift away from cement splices to tape after a couple let go during the striping.

Best of luck [Wink]

Graham.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on May 23, 2013, 08:18 PM:

This reminds me of my long departed friend Tim Christian, who was twice the filmmaker I ever will be: he recorded his sound second system, striped his films, mixed a sound track and then recorded it synced. (The man made his own 'scope films!)

He wrote this article about using the Bolex striper which I've grabbed and held onto so it won't be lost: (This is the digest version!)

Striping - 2. Restoring and using a Bolex striper
by T. S. Christian, February 2002.

Trial run

Carry out intial trials on a 15 m or so length of scrap film (of course you have!). Ideally, film should be lubricated after striping. If the film is already lubricated, pass the base (shiny) side over a clean, dry felt pad to remove excess lubrican. These are proprietary cleaning fluids available.

With clean machine in good condition, preparations for striping are minimal: just load a reel of stripe and a reel of film, half fill (at least) the adhesive bottle, and you are ready to go. There are a couple of points to note, however.

To apply the main stripe to Super 8, the film should be placed on the feed reel as for projection. The film base (shiny side) must always be uppermost through the machine; the stripe should be shiny side down. The sprocket should be placed on its spindle so that the teeth are on the outside, away from the machine. To do this, loosen the Allen head set screw (1.5 mm Allen key) in the sprocket, remove the sprocket, then replace it the appropriate way round.

To apply the balance stripe to Super 8, or to apply the main stripe to Normal 8, the film should be rewound so that the end passes through the machine first, then the sprocket should be set so that its teeth are on the inside, next to the machine.

Attach a metre or so of leader to both ends of the film to be processed, so that initial alignment of the stripe is carried out on scrap. Thread the film and stripe as shown in Fig. 4 - a pair of tweezers are useful to handle the stripe.

Figure 4. Correct threading of film and stripe

Using a fine paint brush, apply a little adhesive to the edge of the film and press the end of the stripe onto it. Now plug the machine in to the power socket, and rotate the knurled knob on the end of the adhesive head fully anti-clockwise and watch carefully. The motor should start to run, film should pass through the machine, and stripe applied to it.

Final adjustments

Two adjustments will be required: tension and stripe position. The stripe centring roller rotates to move its groove across the film so that stripe can be aligned exactly on the film edge. Good lighting and a magnifying glass will be required to get this right. Main, balance, and N8 striping will all require different settings. Note the position of the roller indicator for each (a small sketch of indicator position will do).

Both film and stripe tension must be correct for successful striping. Figure 5 shows one problem due to insufficient

Figure 5. Behaviour of film and stripe around a sprocket

film tension. If the tension on the take-up reel is insufficient, the film, being stiffer than the stripe, does not follow the shape of the sprocket as closely as the stripe. Since the stripe-to-film weld may not be dry, this causes the stripe to peel off the film. Once the adhesive is exposed, it dries rapidly, so that the stripe does not become welded again on the reel. Watch the behaviour of film and stripe around the drive sprocket carefully. If the berhaviour is as shown in Fig. 5, increase the take-up reel tension. If the feed reel tension is insufficient, separation can take place between drum and sprocket, the reverse of that shown.

Stripe tension should be no greater than necessary. Excessive stripe tension could add to the separation effect shown in Fig. 5. Insufficient stripe tension will result in small loops of stripe being formed on the film.

When adjusting the machine, always run a couple of metre of film through without stopping. On starting again, there will always be a short section, that left between adhesive head and drum, that will not stick.

After striping

After stripe has been applied, leave the newly-striped film in a warm (20 °C or so) place for all the adhesive to dry. Then wind it slowly through between rewind arms as described in Part 1, stopping and releasing tension on each length. If short sections are not stuck, apply a little adhesive with a fine brush to the underside of the stripe and wind it onto the reel. If there are loops that are too long to be stuck down, cut a short section out, and stick the remainder. Increase stripe feed tension for the next run. Remember that this film could last fifty years, so make sure it is properly striped.

Next, clean all pulleys, and the drum and sprocket. Remove the adhesive head and wash adhesive away (with the acetone-thinners mixture) in a closed jar for an hour or so. Pour any adhesive remaining in the plastic bottle back into the storage container.

Posted by Brian Hendel (Member # 61) on May 23, 2013, 09:15 PM:

Osi - I'll definitely use your service when it's up and running... I just sent a batch of old silent digests to Germany for striping and it was very costly once you add international shipping to the charges. Do you plan on doing the balance stripe too? I think it's important to get good recording results.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on May 24, 2013, 02:46 AM:

Who knows, this may even prompt someone in the UK to purchase Classic Home Cinemas striper which has been up for sale and set up business. Good to see some enterprise taking place Osi which we are a bit short of over here.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 24, 2013, 12:22 PM:

Steve, you are absolutely fantastic! ThanX 4 that post!

From what I understand, Wittner in Germany provides soundstripe. I don't know who else does, but if we have to go to Germany to get soundstripe, that cost (shipping ect.0 will have to be factored into the striping service ...

... but be advised. I personally will charge literally nothing for the actual striping itself. I look at this as a labor of love. Just another fellow trying to keep super 8 alive in me own little way and a major thanX, of course, to the mighty Osbourne for opening up this venture in the first place.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on May 24, 2013, 12:44 PM:

You're welcome Osi!

Later on tonight I will E-mail you both of these pages as they appeared on the 'net years ago.

(We should never lose ancient wisdom!)

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 24, 2013, 01:00 PM:

Well, that may be reel helpful, as I don't know if the striper will come with the manual, and I'll be damned if I'll go into this venture slipshod!

Once again, thanX!

Oh, another thing that people should know, (in case I didn't say it before). This striper has 400ft capacity to it for striping, so if you have a feature that needs striping (I have a "Raider of the Lost Ark" print that I am DYING to stripe!), it will have to be placed on 400ft reels for the striping process, but that is, of course, in the future.

BRian, I have not visually inspected the unit yet, but I'm betting that it will be mono striping on just one side. I know the desire to have the balance stripe as it can make for better projection, but if I can offer only mono main striping, well, it will have to do.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on May 24, 2013, 01:07 PM:

OK, is the e-mail address in your profile (TOAC..) still good?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 26, 2013, 06:29 PM:

Yep, it's still good, and I got the file. haven't been able to look at it yet, but I hope it answers an additional question ...

Does this mag striper allow for both acetate and polyester prints? I know of the problems that the erman film lab has had with striping. I'd like this question answered before I "open for business".

Being that this Bolex striper is from the golden age of Super 8, I would assume polyester prints, but I'm not quite certian.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on May 26, 2013, 06:44 PM:

Just a word to the wise Osi, make sure that any splices are reinforced with a tape splice in case any come apart,as you
know that could be disastrous.Another point to watch is if the film has been treated,the stripe might not adhere, so would have to be cleaned with some form of "de-greaser".

[ May 27, 2013, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Hugh Thompson Scott ]

Posted by Brian Hendel (Member # 61) on May 28, 2013, 07:22 AM:

Hugh - I'm having that very problem. All the reels I sent off to Germany had been treated with Film Guard... Just heard from the lab and they can't stripe it until all the cleaner has dried... which could take months! That thought did cross my mind... but since all my prints are cleaned before I watch them there wasn't much chance of me having any "dry" prints. Oh well, this is going to take a lot longer than I had planned.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on May 28, 2013, 12:39 PM:

It might be worth a try cleaning with Methylated Spirit Brian, as
this shouldn't harm the film,but will remove any surface grease
etc.

Posted by Brian Hendel (Member # 61) on May 28, 2013, 01:16 PM:

It's all in the hands of the German lab... they are trying to dry the films before putting the stripe on. We'll see what happens.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on May 28, 2013, 10:36 PM:

There used to be a firm in the UK called R & D Carnall, that made all sorts
of gadgets for 8mm use like the "Equaliser" for sorting out prints with weave,one was the "cut a rut", that carved a channel in the
film for soundstripe to lay, it was originally for removal of sound
stripe, and allowed new stripe to be applied. I have no experience of this little appliance but have never read or heard any adverse
comments on it. It just might be of use now for helping stripe to
bond better to the film base.They also made the "Hi-Spot" that
eliminated dropout and stripe peel at splices.

[ May 29, 2013, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: Hugh Thompson Scott ]

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on September 06, 2013, 10:48 PM:

Osi, what's the latest on your sound striping service? I need a polyester 400 footer striped....

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on September 07, 2013, 01:33 PM:

I was just going to ask the same thing. I'm sending two rolls of 64T to Dwayne's for processing this week, and when they get back, they'll need striping. Let us know Osi.

James.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on September 20, 2013, 07:12 PM:

Hey-

I was 'Googling' for sound striping service on the internet & found a neat little documentary about sound striping / recording on super 8:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBQ0_tOAyJQ

I currently need about 200 feet of film striped. I'm looking around but I'd rather give Osi my business [Wink]

James.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on September 21, 2013, 01:51 PM:

Thanks for reminding about all of this ...

With much regret, I must state that I will soon be shipping this striper back to Steve O. The reason is this ...

Unfortunately, not all the parts were still with this striper. Most notably, the "wind/rewind" knobs for both arms are missing. These were of absolute importance, as they keep the reels perfectly straight, so that, as the newly striped film goes onto the reel, it's stays at a level rate and doesn't wobble (which would thereby cause the still wet stripe to move back and forth on the reel).

I tried numerous times to get this striper to work and it failed every time, (even tilting the whole thing up at an angle, to get the reels to sit flat on the arms and not wobble, still wobbled some.

So, the venture into striping with at least this machine is a no go.

I will be shipping this back to Steve shortly, and I'll inform him that if someone else, who has more mastery of this machine, is able to get it to work in it's form, (such as it is), I would encourage them to "take up the mantle" and get it to work.

In fact, if ANY of you has expertise in this kind of thing. Please by all means, contact Steve by phone and let him know that your willing to give it a go, as I would certainly love to see someone be able to operate this.

Sincerely

OSI

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on September 21, 2013, 02:28 PM:

James

I agree. I just love to give Osi the business! [Eek!]

PatD

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on September 21, 2013, 02:58 PM:

When striping prints, it actually is pretty important to ensure BOTH stripes are applied. The reason for the second stripe isn't there so much for the use of stereo, but for its original intent of "the balance stripe", which should be taken literally.

If the balance stripe on the perforation edge isn't there, the film won't wind evenly onto reels AND can cause focus issues when projecting since the film won't be laying flat in the gate. Some projectors deal with this better than others, but the lower f/stop of your lens (such as the Elmo f1.0), the worse the problem will project to the screen.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on September 21, 2013, 07:29 PM:

Totally agree with Brad's comments. The balance stripe is absolutely essential for uniform focus across the width of the screen. Unless of course you are lucky enough to have one of the very few S8 sound projectors with a rear sprung gate.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on September 22, 2013, 09:10 AM:

Well, this is sadly a done issue, but note that this would have been one stripe mono striping in the first place. This old machine was never designed to do the two stripe stereo style super 8 mag striping, though I totally agree that the two stripe (allowing for stereo if desired) is certainly preferrable for the above reasons.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on September 22, 2013, 09:19 AM:

Walton Films never had a balance stripe, I think they were the only seller in the UK that didn't have one.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on September 22, 2013, 02:01 PM:

Osi,

Sorry this didn't work out.

I have a number of early Castle Super 8 releases that only have a main stripe. I believe Techno Films didn't bother with balance either.

Doug

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on September 22, 2013, 02:22 PM:

Which of course raises the obvious question - why did the vast majority of Super 8 sound projector manufacturers opt for the front sprung gate, when it is so obvious that a rear sprung gate totally eliminates all concern about stripe thickness and stripe uniformity? Elmo and Eumig and others, were all making high end projectors and none of them, except Beaulieu, went with the correct design, which is a rear sprung gate.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on September 22, 2013, 06:56 PM:

I agree with the above comments regarding the need for a balance stripe, however if you are stuck and really want sound, then look out for a Rexette. I used one years ago, as long as you can still get the cement and stripe the little Rexette striper is a real breeze to use, and it does a nice job, but it only "main track"

The thing which is really important with all this and that's cleaning the film first. I am not sure what chemicals are around these days that you can use safely on Acetate film stock.

With the Rexette you can stripe 400ft of film quickly as the projector is being used for this. If I remember right it runs at the 18fps setting.

Graham.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 22, 2013, 07:53 PM:

Just a guess, but maybe a front sprung gate means the surface that the claw operates through is a solid piece and it makes for less uncertainty in the insertion depth of the claw? (-a fixed reference level?)

Maybe with a rear sprung gate and a thin piece of film the pushing is out at the claw tips and it makes them more likely to bend?

-at least with a front sprung gate, regardless of the thickness of the stock the film can be resting at the bases of the claw tips where they are strongest.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on September 23, 2013, 03:09 AM:

We have been using the Rexette since the 70’s which is a basic 8mm striper but works. The real secret is to make sure the film to be striped is 100% clean as even a finger print can make the stripe come away. Had a brief dalliance with a Bolex striper but it was worn and so returned to the Rexette which has given good results and modified mine to take 600ft reels of stripe. Keep looking Osi you will find a good striper and be in business.

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on September 23, 2013, 03:16 AM:

Not all Walton films omitted the balance stripe. I think this was just a cost saving exercise by them. I have more with the balance stripe than none.

I seem to remember in the two magazines at the time readers letters was featuring complaints almost every month, plus the reviewers highlighted the problem.

They did start using it again.

None of my Techno Films has a balance stripe.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on September 23, 2013, 07:24 AM:

I have some UFA (German) prints with only the main stripe.

James.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on September 23, 2013, 07:47 AM:

David, were these early Waltons?; I think all mine only have a main stripe, and I was buying L&H 2 reelers soon up to the time they closed.

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on September 23, 2013, 12:44 PM:

Of the two I just checked "Shalako" (scope) doesn't have balance track. The other "Monty Python's Holy Grail" does.

We hope to start the weekend shows in October and I'll be watching some of my Walton features, I'll report back.

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