8mm Forum: Help a newbie

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Posted by David Hollandsworth (Member # 3805) on June 30, 2013, 12:47 PM:

Just acquired a nice, almost new Bell & Howell 10MS to do some converting to DVD. Light works great and all the motors hum away and I can hear the variable speed working... but... neither of the spindles turn. Is this normal without using reels or perhaps the belt broke or came off? Maybe I should mention that I have no film reels yet to test it out.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on June 30, 2013, 12:57 PM:

Might be belts going to goo ... Check all belts for sure, very common if projector been unused for a long time

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on June 30, 2013, 12:58 PM:

Hi David, welcome aboard.

Belts (and other rubber parts) tend to be the first to go on all these old machines, so if the motors are running and nothing is transporting, that could very well be the case.

In forward mode, the rear spindle should be rotating; in rewind, the front spindle should be spinning briskly.

See if you can take off the back cover of the machine just to get a look-see if anything rubbery is broken or stretched, and then call back here and give a report. We have a lot of knowledgeable people on here who are happy to help.

Claus.

Posted by David Hollandsworth (Member # 3805) on June 30, 2013, 03:20 PM:

ok...two screws and the back is off! belt is not broken. feels nice and flexible but... it looks loose. motor turns both ways good and strong. is the belt is simply stretched? wonder why since the entire inside looks new. see photo. also, can someone tell me what the clip thing is hanging from the handle in the bottom photo? i need to get a manual for this, too. thanks!

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on June 30, 2013, 03:25 PM:

There's likely belts in the arms also ... Try to take off the covers on the arms also

My Eiki RT-2 was totally gooed up and I cleaned and put on new belts, it ran nice (at least when last tested)

And also, my Chinon didn't have belts, but needed oil on the wheels in the arms

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on June 30, 2013, 03:58 PM:

WELCOME TO THE FORUM DAVID!!!!!

The little thing hanging from the handle is a film trimmer. Just insert the film in it and press. It trims the end so it will thread through projector correctly. You only do this one to each film you run. The reason is most projectors are picky that have auto threading.

As far as your other problem, run the projector with the back off and see what is NOT turning. Something has to be slipping.

Good luck

Patd

Posted by David Hollandsworth (Member # 3805) on June 30, 2013, 04:00 PM:

the motor definitely does not turn the belt... it has a lot of slack in it. i can move the large pulley that turns the gears very easily so am thinking a new belt might do it. everything looks greased and oiled line new.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on June 30, 2013, 04:02 PM:

Welcome to the forum David.

1. I have a PDF of the user manual...PM me with your email address.

2. With the back off plug in the machine and turn the selector switch to forward mode and then reverse. Look at all the belts..the gears...the fan wheel and see if something isn't turning. The main motor belt may be stretched and not making good contact with the pully which drives the arm gears.

3. That is a film trimmer attached to the handle. You should use it to trim the end of the film before inserting it into the auto feed.

Posted by Mike McCord (Member # 3767) on July 01, 2013, 07:49 AM:

I agree, the belt is too old. One trick I learned on this forum was to "boil" the belt in light soapy water for about 15 minutes, let cool down, rinse in cool clean water, and reinstall. This helped me diagnose my problem - but, only for a short while. I found a rubber band and stretched it to replace the belt while I waited on a replacement via eBay. This allowed me to check out the rest of the projector.

Posted by David Hollandsworth (Member # 3805) on July 01, 2013, 08:18 AM:

mike, thanks for the tip! just might try it. any suggestions on best places to buy a belt and also a spare bulb? i see belts on ebay for $12. yikes!

Posted by Mike McCord (Member # 3767) on July 01, 2013, 11:02 AM:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Hanimex-808D-808-D-Projector-Motor-Drive-BELT-/181134222179?pt=US_Movie_Slide_Projectors&hash=item2a2c70e363

This seems to be in your neighborhood.

Posted by David Hollandsworth (Member # 3805) on July 02, 2013, 06:34 AM:

well, upon further checking, it looks like it might be missing part of the supply spindle?? the reel does not fit on it snugly like it does on the take-up. i bought a take-up reel (below). is this the right one? i also see adapters on ebay...

[URL=http://www.ebay.com/itm/600-Movie-Projector-Take-Up-Reel-Super-8-8mm-Elmo-Sankyo-Chinon-GAF-Eumig-/181133068951?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%2 52BIA]http://www.ebay.com/itm/600-Movie-Projector-Take-Up-Reel-Super-8-8mm-Elmo-Sankyo-Chinon-GAF-Eumig-/181133068951?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI% 252BIA[/URL] %252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D171033561519%26ps%3D54

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 02, 2013, 07:10 AM:

Hi David, the opening on Super 8 is larger than Standard 8mm, dual guage machines used to have a sleeve that you could take on and off depending on what guage you were showing. Some suppliers of empty reels used to include these convertors. I threw all mine away, but you can find them on Ebay.

Posted by Brian Stearns (Member # 3792) on July 02, 2013, 07:15 AM:

Its nice to see another projector that has a squirrel cage for a fan [Smile]

it looks brand new,good luck with this projector

Posted by David Hollandsworth (Member # 3805) on July 02, 2013, 07:27 AM:

so is this all in need?

http://store.tvedenlampmodules.com/1-SUPER-8-MOVIE-FILM-REEL-ADAPTER-PLUG-to-Regular-8mm-projector-spindle-P3131326.aspx

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on July 02, 2013, 07:32 AM:

That's all you need to adapt a super 8mm reel to standard 8mm spindle. [Wink]

Well done!

PatD [Cool]

Posted by David Hollandsworth (Member # 3805) on July 02, 2013, 07:34 AM:

so i'm assuming the larger one on the take-up side is an adapter for super 8 and can be removed?

Posted by David Hollandsworth (Member # 3805) on July 05, 2013, 07:29 PM:

Just an update... got the new belt it now works! The old one was stretched and gooey. Also got the adapters in case I need to play Super 8 reels. This thing looks and sound like brand new. Also went ahead and ordered a spare bulb just in case I need it one day. Thanks for all the help!

Posted by Daniel Long (Member # 4054) on December 04, 2013, 10:10 PM:

I am grateful to have found this forum, with all this knowledge! I have a B&H 10MS as well and am a rank amateur with it. My problem is that it runs in reverse, but not forward. All the belts look fine. In fact, it looks new in there. Thanks again for a great forum!

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on December 05, 2013, 02:14 AM:

Welcome Daniel. When you say it only runs backwards...do you mean that the motor does not run forward or just the spindles do not turn? Did you check the main selector switch to see if all the connections are in place? If the motor is running correctly then even though the belt might look good it still could be stretched.

Posted by Daniel Long (Member # 4054) on December 05, 2013, 07:19 AM:

Janice, thank you! I looked at the inside again. Using the picture above, there is that, I guess its a belt that looks like a long spring along the top of the case? On the left and right are spools. On those spools are a disc and also a piece that has two teeth on it, both held in place with a screw. The one on the left will rotate continuously if I turn the reel backwards.If I turn it forward, it makes almost one full rotation and one of the teeth on that piece catches an indent on the spool and stops the reel. It looks like the screw is loose and makes the whole works on that spool loose, and that seems to be the problem. However, that screw won't budge either way, so I wonder if there is something further back that I cannot see thats leaving all that slack.
Sorry for the lengthy description and probably the wrong part names!

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on December 05, 2013, 01:54 PM:

Daniel...here is another photo of the left supply reel assembly.
(1) Screw (2) Washer (3) Washer w/ 2 tangs (this should be loose and can be turned freely with your hand) (4) Pulley for the spring belt (5) Gear (6) Gear (7) Spring

Here is the right take-up reel assembly...this gives you a better view of the spring.

It's possible that the tangs(3) are bent or perhaps the washer has some old residue making it stick...may need some lubrication.

Take another look. Try just turning the shuttter which will turn the gears to see where it's jamming. There could be a broken tooth on one of the gears too.

Report back on your progress...

[ December 06, 2013, 01:33 AM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

Posted by Daniel Long (Member # 4054) on December 06, 2013, 12:27 PM:

Thanks, Janice. Bear with me if I don't make any sense! The washer (with tangs) on the upper left is just kind of flopping around, as is the other washer with it. I guess the pulley? has kind of a groove or an indent on it. When turning the reel forward, one of the tangs catches that indent. On the upper right, everything seems a bit more flush and not loose, and the tang kind of stays in one place and does not catch.
The screw holding in the washers to the spool is immobile. I don't know if I can post a video here, but if I can I will try and show whats going on. The tangs look fine and there does not seem to be anything going on there that isn't going on on the side that's working, except for the looseness.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 06, 2013, 12:46 PM:

Can't help you, but welcome to the forum!

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on December 06, 2013, 02:09 PM:

Upload a video to YouTube and post the link.

Here are a few more things to check:

It's possible that the spring behind the gear is stuck...try pulling the gears forward towards the screw to see if that tightens the washers. See that the arm attached to the gears is tight and positioned correctly... there are a couple of screws on the arm to check. Also make sure the E-Clip holding the gear (6) is not missing.

Although there is a Phillips screw head...It may not be a screw...but just a rod holding all the pieces together that has slipped forward. It may just need to be tapped back into position. I wouldn't try this though until you have checked all the other possibilities.

[ December 06, 2013, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

Posted by Daniel Long (Member # 4054) on December 10, 2013, 10:05 PM:

Sorry for the delayed reply. Janice, I will try all your suggestions, and if they don't pan out, I'll post a video. Thank you again!

Osi, thank you very much!

Posted by Eric Lorek (Member # 4379) on July 25, 2014, 04:08 PM:

Hi. I am also a newbie. Just picked up a 10 MS B&H. I watched a video on youtube about this projector.

The motor runs. I can't get the movie to "thread" through the machine. Nor does the rear wheel spin when "threading".

In the reverse setting I DO see the front movie wheel spin and the rear wheel spins also I believe.

The rubber belt seems quite loose. I ordered one for $4 free shipping. Should this fix the problem?

Is there a tutorial on belt installation for the 10MS? Any help would be much appreciated!!!

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on July 25, 2014, 09:17 PM:

Welcome to the forum Eric. Sounds like a new belt should solve your issues. The belt on the 10MS is very easy to install. Just put the belt on the front pulley and slide the rest of the belt over the back pulley. Sometimes holding the belt to the back pulley and turning it will make it easier to stretch around the pulley.

Posted by Eric Lorek (Member # 4379) on July 26, 2014, 12:37 AM:

Janice thank you so much for the reply! After reading through this forum initially (and seeing how old it was) I was hoping you were still active on the forum as you seem super knowledgeable.

As soon as the belt arrives I will post an update. Thank you Janice. [Smile]

Posted by Eric Lorek (Member # 4379) on August 06, 2014, 02:09 AM:

Hi the new belt installed very easily. When I first threaded the film it actually ate a bunch of the film and wouldn't thread through to the rear reel. So I shut it off and removed the front cover - fished the ruined film out and clipped it.

Re-tried it and it fed through great the second time.

I would love to get a PDF of the user manual if that is available.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 06, 2014, 02:41 AM:

Eric...Glad you got your 10MS up and running. If you PM me with your email address I'll send you a PDF of the manual.

Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on March 15, 2015, 10:51 AM:

Just received a B&H 10MS sold as is from e-bay. Good news, the bulb lights, the motor runs. Bad news, the belt is a bunch of goo, (cleans up with alcohol) and the bearings on the shutter shaft are frozen --- the shutter will turn with lots of pressure but one of the bearings completely turns instead of the shaft turning within the bearing. Ordered a new belt on ebay, and while waiting for it, my task the next few days is to unfreeze the shutter shaft without wrecking the entire machine. Any one who has done this before? I'll post what I ran into and how I made out --- it's a good project for a snowy Ides of March here in Vermont.

Update --- a few hours later & some interesting challenges, I managed to pull out the shutter drive shaft. First removed one of the sprockets and the chain in order to make it easier to work on the shaft. One of the Phillips heads on the bearing holders were stripped out, so the screw driver wouldn't engage. So using a little diamond wheel on my moto-tool, ground a slot in the head which enabled me to put a lot of pressure with a regular slot head screw driver, and out it came. It was necessary to loosen the shutter/pulley (using a 1.5mm allen wrench), and with some twisting & turning got the shaft free and the bearings off, cleaned up and well lubricated, got everything re-installed. Using a rubber band till my drive belt comes, tested it out and everything seems to work. Now, just need to remold a broken take up hub, and maybe I can begin watching movies. If anyone has a similar issue, give me a hollar & I'd be happy to talk you thru what needs to be done. ataplow@gmail.com

[ March 15, 2015, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: Alan Taplow ]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 10, 2015, 05:07 PM:

Update: The Phillips head screw is indeed a screw. Refer to this thread in removing it.

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010189

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