8mm Forum: The gs1200 xenon the holy grail of projector's ?

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Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on August 20, 2013, 05:27 PM:

Well gent's I've just got back to my computer and missed the end
of an auction for this machine on ebay ,just over £3000.00 !!!!.
Someone really wanted that and got a bit carried away with ebay fever. Earlier in the year one fetched about £1200 and I thought that was at least in as good condition as this one , i wonder who bagged it . Its certainly had the star wars effect on the price for someone . I hope it gets to the new owner in as good condition as it left the seller .

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 20, 2013, 06:08 PM:

Totally agree there Paul, too much money to have it damaged in transit. Fingers crossed for the purchaser, it reaches him in one piece.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 20, 2013, 06:26 PM:

To answer your title question, yes for many people the Elmo GS Xenon is the ultimate super 8 film projector. If you follow this forum you will know, that despite its stellar reputation, the GS is not without its own peculiar reliability and film path issues, and some of the higher end Eumigs do a better job of sound recording and reproduction. But despite that, the bottom line is that the GS( and more so the GS Xenon) is by far the brightest available S8 projector, and is built to 16mm standards of design and construction. For all round performance a well running GS is very hard to beat.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 20, 2013, 09:45 PM:

Paul, I must say, that I hold what you say is true. The GS1200
is a good machine, but not in all repects. In replay, and I have one, I ALWAYS am at ease when projecting on my FUMEO.
Although not in stereo,(my model) but more than equal in
projection, I'm sure other machines can deliver the goods.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 21, 2013, 01:21 AM:

The French Beaulieu projector is often regarded as the Rolls Royce of the projectors and the Italian Fumeo is certainly one of the best machine.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 21, 2013, 03:01 AM:

Oddly enough i always wanted a GS many years ago but have to say over the years quite a number of projector repair specialists including,(the repair specialists appointed by Elmo), the top lady at Hanimax, as well as two very well known repair specialists we all know & hold dearly but will not be named here, all said to me, the GS is a great machine but unless your keen with electronics your best bet for the average man is the more reliable ST1200HDs, as these are easier to maintain and also for projection purposes do the job perfectly and with use of good amps & lenses etc are essentially one of the best machines built and they do last.

Having said that, if won the lotto i'd have to get get a Xenon GS [Big Grin]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 21, 2013, 03:12 AM:

I have a GS1200, a Beaulieu, and a Fumeo, and I'm not that mad about any of them.
I much prefer one of my Sankyo projectors.

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on August 21, 2013, 04:44 AM:

Well a good price for it, that's about the most expensive Gs1200 I've seen but if I had the money I'd buy one. For home use you don't really need a xenon lamp (just my opinion) and a 100w lamp is plenty in most cases but it depends what you want, I have a GS1200 that I mainly use for re-recording and find it the easiest machine to use for this purpose because of it's pulse sync facility. I'd say most GS1200 owners have never recorded with them in this way but get one just to have one to a) own one and b) just run film. Hope the new owner is very happy with it whatever they do with it, Mark

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on August 21, 2013, 01:27 PM:

I never thought I would say this but I hold the Elmo GS1200 Xenon as the ultimate for larger audience projection. As some of you will have read before I used to project with the Xenon in the 80’s and beyond at annual film festival and presentation was excellent. Today I still use Xenon Elmo’s for the bigger show and with love and attention these machines will last. The problem with any projector is if you buy one which has done the rounds prior to you owning it and goodness knows who has had a finger or spanner in it should a fault occur. I’m guessing than anyone wanting Xenon on super 8 will probably look for a Elmo due to the track record of a well looked after machine. Yes I think for the semi pro projectionist (someone giving bigger audience shows/200+ audiences) the Elmo GS1200 Xenon is the top to aim for.

Today’s top tip. Should you be looking for a GS1200 Xenon you can clearly see what life it has had by looking at the big green film path guide exiting the lower sprocket. If you see a browning on this guide the lamp will have done some time turning it brown behind the rear of the lamp. I learnt this tip year’s ago when buying another xenon for backup purposes as the heat of the lamp turns the guide colour which is a pretty good guide.

For super 8 home use the Eumig 938 is excellent and so quiet or a standard GS1200 in good shape. Standard 8 the Eumig 810D or 824 Sonomatic seem favourite although some use the original Kodak Sound 8 souped up to 2000ft spools and better lighting with the F1 lens.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on August 21, 2013, 01:44 PM:

Out of interest, is the GS the only Super 8 machine which has a Xenon model?

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on August 21, 2013, 02:44 PM:

Strictly speaking, the answer to your question, Michael, is (almost) yes. But there are other machines featuring advanced lighting techniques for increased output, i.e. the Beaulieu 708 also comes in a version with an HTI lamp which in some respects is not very different from a xenon. Also Fumeo had a big screen version for both 16 and S/8 machines (genuine xenon in these cases). But model 9119 was also available with a MARC 300 lamp from General Electric. Some amateurs have managed to transform a standard GS 1200 into an HTI machine with excellent results. And finally I know of a Eumig prototype equipped with a Xenon lamp which never made it into production. Others can integrate this short list, maybe?

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on August 21, 2013, 02:46 PM:

Thanks, Maurizio.
Did the Beaulieu sell with a HTI fitted or were these converted by owners?

Posted by Desmond Godwin (Member # 2530) on August 21, 2013, 03:26 PM:

Tom.. I hope you win the Lotto.(make sure you have a ticket first!) Your friend was right in that the GS1200 (more so on the Xenon is very dependant(among other things) on good electronic health. As an electronics technician and having restored 2 Elmo's (one a Xenon) I can say he was speaking the truth! The GS1200 Xenon is a great performer but its not without flaws and at this stage in there lives they will need a good amount of TLC and this includes the electronics.

Lee points to a good marker on the Xenon in that the discolouration of the film channel just behind the lamp is a sign of a lotta hours of use, and that is an easy one to check. Did i see some browning in 1 of de pics on the e\Bay machine that went for 3K? The original Elmo box with its padding is good for normal transit. After spending over 3K no doubt its new owner will be on tender hooks until the machine arrives safely to him. -- Ugo did you buy this projector??

[Smile]

Desmond

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 22, 2013, 03:48 AM:

If I was ever to consider the purchase of a Super 8 xenon I would go for the sleek and beautiful Fumeo 9145.
http://www.super8data.com/database/projectors_list/projectors_fumeo/fumeo_9145.htm

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on August 22, 2013, 03:54 AM:

Maurizio
I actually got to see the Eumig Xenon prototype projector at a photo show many moons ago. They used a 810D machine and extended the lamp house depth to what I remember to be double size in order to accommodate the lamp. The power unit was in a black base unit I recall but sad to say it never went into production although it did look quite professional. The model was known as the ‘Eumig 850 Xenon Super’.If there was an award for a projector that didn’t make a final production run this would get it from me.

Maurice. Might need a new truss for that Fumeo they are so SO heavy.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 22, 2013, 04:34 AM:

Thank you, Lee.
At my age most of my projectors are quite a heave to get up onto my 4' Bell & Howell stand, including my 9119 Fumeo.
I love my Eumig 824 which has everything, but would certainly be the bees knees with a xenon lamp.

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on August 22, 2013, 04:57 AM:

Michael, the Beaulieu 708 EL Stereo HTI was a specific version factory-taylored, not an after-purchase transformation/upgrade. I think it was the last update of this wonderful machine.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 22, 2013, 07:33 AM:

I believe that this is a picture of the Eumig Xenon that Lee is referring to:

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on August 22, 2013, 08:00 PM:

I have had the Xenon GS1200 (Yes...4 of them now I think!) and I now have a Beaulieu 708 HTI from the Factory.
I really liked the Elmo Xenon but the image with the Beaulieu HTI is brighter than the Xenon for sure.
I also had a Fumeo as well.
For most of the things I screen I use the Beaulieu and then for a backup or for Optical I use the GS Standard. And for re-recording I use the GS as well.
I found that the odds of getting a good GS are much better than the odds of getting a good Beaulieu. The Beaulieu's are a little more "sensitive" than the GS but if you can get a hold of one that has been well looked after than you are in for a treat.
"Shane" never looked so good on Super 8 than with my Beaulieu!
I bet the best Super 8 machine ever made was the 9145 Fumeo with the Stereo heads, Optical, and recording heads with pulse sync. (all were custom built to order)
Then the GS Xenon, Beaulieu HTI, Fumeo, then the Bauers, Eumigs, Sankyos, etc.
The highest I ever bid on a GS1200 Xenon in the box with extra lamp was a few years ago from Henry Deans on Ebay. I bid $3600 and won. And then I waited. And waited. After a few weeks I asked for my money back, which he refunded, and then I asked him to let me know when he gets it I'll resend the money. It was from an estate sale he said.
He never contacted me and fell off the face of the earth.
Ah...the drama of the Xenon machines. It would make for a good book . We could end it with Desmond's awesome rebuild! Wish I had the GS Xenon again. Even if it wasn't that bright...the whiteness of the light was really, really nice compared to the yellow halogen. Not that you would notice once the show started!

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on August 23, 2013, 02:38 AM:

Yes that’s it Paul and here is another publicity picture of it. I’m guessing a Eumig 810D could be converted to HTI lighting with a larger lamp house based on this picture. Watch this space!

It was a standard 810D with the lux F1.2 lens and had a 300 watt Xenon installed. I think it was to have been the first 8mm Xenon machine although in the mid 70's I had no idea what a Xenon was but it sure looked smart.

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on August 23, 2013, 03:18 AM:

Yeah, kind of weird though: looks like a Fiat Panda powered by a Lamborghini engine....

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 23, 2013, 06:17 AM:

A great looking projector, but what a hulk of a power unit. It looks like one of those extra amplifiers which were once sold for Eumigs, but all they did was to amplify the hum!

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 23, 2013, 08:32 AM:

That lamp house mod on the Eumig would be a very easy thing to do. And I imagine that the Xenon power supply would be a lot smaller with today's technology.
Sound like a job for David Pannell. David has already modified this projector to 800ft reels. Just imagine a Eumig 810/820 with 800f reels and xenon lighting! [Smile]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 23, 2013, 08:53 AM:

A xenon conversion needs some form of dowser to hold back the light when not actually projecting films.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on August 23, 2013, 09:29 AM:

Maurice. Our cine club used to be full of the Harry Garlick Craven amplifiers as he made them just up the road. The MK2 external amps for use in bigger halls was rather good for the day.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 23, 2013, 10:48 AM:

Lee
I don't remember the make of my amp, could have been a Craven, but it was designed for the Eumig. I had an 807D in those days and it needed the "wick" full up in a small hall, but with maximum "wick" also came maximum hum.

The amplifier had an extra control which was supposed to reduce the projector's hum, but it didn't really work. The amplifier just increased the output and the hum. So the extra purchase of the amp was a total waste of money.

Posted by Erik Snel (Member # 4017) on November 18, 2013, 03:13 PM:

the eumig 850 xenon superlux must have not been sold very much, i have never ever seen one in real and i don't believe the museum in austria has one to. but man what a beast it is. nowadays xenon power untis can be smaller but they still won't fit in a mark 800. you also have to make do with the distortions the power supply creates in the amplifier, you wouldn't get much sound from your film i'm afraid

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on November 18, 2013, 03:52 PM:

Probably it never went into production. There must have been only a prototype, obtained by modifying a Series 800 machine.

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