8mm Forum: Which model Elmo ST1200 is the best?

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Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on December 18, 2013, 12:25 AM:

I picked up an Elmo ST1200D recently and after I replaced the belts and gave it a good clean I was surprised how good this model is. I have owned the Elmo ST1200HD, the ST1200 regular and for some reason this one is the best I have used.
The sound is really clear and booming. The picture is nice and steady and looks sharp with the 1.3 lens. (Looks even better with the 1.0 or the 1.1 Schneider!)
And I put a Kowa 8z on it for scope and it really stunned me.
The best thing about it is that it is really light compared to the GS and the Beaulieu 708 HTI, and when you take off the back cover, it makes sense. I thought the light output would be dim but in actuality its actually pretty good.

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on December 18, 2013, 02:21 AM:

I think they are one of the best machines Elmo produced,i've got a HD model and it runs very quiet and gives a nice bright steady picture. I've had other ST models over the years and they do vary but i think it depends on how much use they've had but i've found each one pretty much trouble free. I once picked one up that was in an awful state(for spares) it looked liked it had been used in one of the many 70's mens clubs!! of the day showing films on loops day and night,brown inside from all the nicotine as well,I got it home and plugged it in (and although i wouldn't run a decent print through it)it ran perfectly. I do have a GS1200 which i love but you just can't go wrong with an ST1200 for better reliability and ease of use,A decent bulb and a 1.1 lens in them and the difference that makes is well worth doing,Mark. P.S which ST1200 is best? Any of them [Wink]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on December 18, 2013, 02:38 AM:

One great feature of these projectors is their delightful carrying case which can hold a spool and mains lead. It also includes a small wallet which can store the microphone and other little items.
As to the best model, I have both the ST-1200 MO and the ST-1200 HD MO. It is impossible to say which is the best.

Posted by Luis Caramelo (Member # 2430) on December 18, 2013, 07:04 AM:

hi!Alan i cher your opinion,i do have an elmo st-1200 M.O,and it,s realy a worse work,i bought mine about 30 years ago and still great,that is what i use to run my features in scope,i also got a chinon st-1200 stereo,but the elmo to me is in first place,some models can not be so faifhul,but i think it depends the time where they came out,
but i must say i was like with mine.and i belive to many fellas,,

regards:
luis caramelo

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on December 18, 2013, 07:06 AM:

I have almost every model of elmo1200 series..the best one ..is the one that is the best adjustment. they all are good. I have a GS, but I only use it in venues that have a big screen to fill. In my permanent booth at home, I run two ST1200HD's with fuji lamps and 1.0 lenses and for my screen, 8 feet wide for scope, painted with Steve Osborne's special screen paint, the ST's provide great brightness, steady images...and good stereo sound, using the monitor outputs. They are reliable workhorses. Over the years the ST1200hd's have been my all round favorites. Simple mechanism with far fewer things to go wrong. I actually have used them (before getting the gs) to fill the 17 foot wide scope screen outside with adequate brightness. That screen also painted with the screen paint...which really does give you about 20% extra brightness.

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on December 18, 2013, 08:45 PM:

I've had the ST1200D and HD, and currently have the ST1200D M/O. Hard to choose which is best....

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on December 19, 2013, 12:28 AM:

I finally made a decision tonight to come back to the ST-1200HD series after spinning my head with GS's that never seem to work the same from screening to screening. It seems there is always something that needs adjusting and i have my hands filled constantly fixing all of the old odd-gauge projectors I use, so when I break out an 8mm or super 8 projector I just want it to work every time and that is what the ST-1200's do...I am currently using an ST-1200 HD Mag only with the 1.0 lens, they are really some of the best projectors ever made...I have a theory..The ST-1200 series represents the old school of production where things were made to last, and the GS-1200 series represent the modern way of production where things are made to fail so you have to constantly buy a new one.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on December 19, 2013, 01:21 AM:

I am thinking about getting an HD model but I'm worried about the rubber around the shutter edge? The D model doesn't have it. Do any of you who owns the ST1200HD have the rubber around the shutter edge?

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on December 19, 2013, 02:43 AM:

The ST1200HD is supposed to be very good, however the original ST1200..the very early 1970s model, is incredibly reliable. I still have the one I bought second hand in 1979, and it still goes great. One of the best things I did back then was to buy a new Elmo 1.1 lens for it.

Graham.

Posted by David Singer (Member # 3953) on December 19, 2013, 08:36 AM:

I have an Elmo ST1200D that uses a square take-up reel belt but I have seen pictures of that projector that uses a cog take-up reel belt. Is the cog belt an earlier or later design?

Thank you.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 19, 2013, 03:35 PM:

Hello Alan, may I ask why you are "worried" about the rubber drive belt on the shutter wheel? Mine has this belt fitted as from original spec on the machine and works fine with it on, it is, after all, supposed to be an improvement to the original design without. It supposedly makes the drive chain smoother,quieter and make the start up time to full operating speed quicker.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on December 19, 2013, 03:49 PM:

From what I understand they all started out with the rubber surface around the shutter wheel but over the years it turned to goo and was removed.

It's kind of a shame: with that still on there the rollers would have a lot better grip on the wheel, and It would probably eliminate that buzz I think is the wheel vibrating.

I have a feeling it wouldn't be as bulletproof as the AC motor they used, but an ST-1200 with a DC motor and electronic speed control would be a nice change from that double roller rocker thingy that's in there now. I'm big on keeping things simple, but this may be taking that idea a little too far!

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on December 19, 2013, 04:23 PM:

The very early HDs didnt have the rubber edge, i myself have over the years purchased three of the HDs with the rubber edge, here is what to do,
John White does an exchange modified shutter for these. He has a friend who is (i think) a precision engineer who takes the old shutter, places it on a lathe and as well as removing the old rubber he turns the rounded edge into a nice new flat surface by shaving it slightly so the rubber drive has a flat fuller surface to contact. he also is able to have a new lower motor pully made so the speed is corrected with the lose of the rubber surface.
I'm not too sure if John will actually sell these today as i would imagine he would prefer to do the job using your old shutter as a one to one exchange but i have to say the two i purchsed some years ago are superb. The machined surfaces are perfect.
some of you may recall i myself had some new 24fps rubber wheel assemblys made and a few lower pulleys, they all went down very well thanks to this very forum and even got the thumbs up from Kieth Wilton which put a big smile of pride on my face. [Wink]

The HD (in my opinion) is by far the better model, its basically a Mk 2.
I will add something here, the best Elmo repair specialist, Bill Parsons, recently said to me, & its very true, No Two 1200 or 1200HDs are ever the same, we have three and i have to agree, i have one i call my best and it has in the two weeks had the BP treatment and it has come back running perfect, i have a second one which runs fine but is nowhere near as quite, and we have a third which is running fine but also has its little quirks. But all three have excellent light output and are extremley reliable and all have great sound and now run with no wow or flutter at all.All three have been fitted with the improved shutter with no rubber edges. we also use the 1.1 lenses as although the 1.0 has more light output the 1.1 has the better image as far as sharpness is concerned.
The HD also has two lower rollers which were added to improve running,its only covered in the Elmo workshop repair manual on the back page of the parts book.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on December 19, 2013, 05:31 PM:

Hi Tom and everyone, great replies! Many thanks!
The reason I am worried about the rubber around the shutter wheel is that many of the ones I have seen with them are either about to turn into goo or have turned. I remember having one where I removed the goo and then the machine seemed to be noiser and louder than the previous ones I had.
And I was also curious because this 1200D model seems to be the perfect ST. It is quiet, the sound is great and the image too - and I never have to worry about the shutter wheel problem in the future. I appreciate the fact that we have GS1200's but in the long run it may be these mechanical work horses that finish the race in one piece. That being said my GS may still outlive me! [Smile]

I guess I'll keep my eyes peeled for a Mint ST1200HD optical/magnetic model.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on December 20, 2013, 06:38 AM:

It will only be more noisey if you simply remove the rubber, with the shutter surface machined properly any noise difference is (in my opinion, & ive now had three done) is virtually non existant. Its very much well worth it. However, i am sure if you have a good 1200 then this will be equally as good.
If i can help you further details feel free to mail me.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on December 20, 2013, 12:28 PM:

Those real early ST1200 never had rubber round the shutter...that's why I like them [Smile]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 13, 2014, 04:57 PM:

Mine had had the rubber around the shutter replaced by it's previous owner BEFORE it turned to mush. If the machine is owned by someone who actually uses it regularly I don't believe the rubber on the shutter wheel poses any problems whatsoever as it will be replaced in due time and having owned three different variants over the years all I can say is it does help with start up torque, wow at the beginning of the projected soundtrack as well as noise and vibration. I think any potential buyer concerned by the "goo" syndrome need only be concerned if the projector has not been used for donkey's years and in which case I would be concerned about cleaning all of the debris from ALL of the belts, not just the shutter belt.

Posted by James E. Stubbs (Member # 817) on February 16, 2014, 11:36 PM:

I've had both D'd and HD's. The later of course having the advantage of stereo sound externally. I had to remove the black goo from the shutter and a slight modification to the clutch with a washer or two afterward. I've kept the 3 blade shutter as I also shoot a fair amount of film @ 18FPS. A new Xenophot and it's given me years of perfect service. Only thing I'd really like to add is a 1.1 lens.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 17, 2014, 03:40 PM:

It does make a huge difference James over the standard F1.3 lens.

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