8mm Forum: Bauer T600 or Eumig S940

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Posted by Koen Keevel (Member # 4109) on January 15, 2014, 03:39 PM:

Hello,

During my search to find some answers about two projectors, I discovered this forum. (quite strange that I did not find this before...)
So after registering I thought I might ask for some advise here.

I'm at the point of selling my Heurtier ST42 and buying a different 8mm projector.
And I found two types of projectors. The Bauer T600 and the Eumig S940.
Both are mentioned in the forum here, but I wondered if you people could advise me which I should buy.

I want to playback stereo (as both machines can) and also rerecord some animations with some audio (this because I ruined them in my younger days)
Both can do this (i think)

Could you people avise me a bit? (or is that a very tricky question to ask....)

Cheers

Koen

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on January 15, 2014, 04:08 PM:

Hi, Koen.
They are very similar in terms of performance, both as regards mechanics and sound quality/facilities.

Also they share some flaws such as shutter cams made of nylon and rather "soft" (and prone to wear) sound heads. The Eumig is also known for featuring a very complex (long no more available) Motorola chip which is used to store all the programmable sound recordings. Problem is if this chip dies, you can't playback sound either. If you are a Eumig fan, you might be better off by buying a model S 938, the next best thing: same mechanics, same sound performance (very highj quality) but without a "microcomputer". The electronics can be readily serviced and for your intended use is more than enough.

Yet re-recording sound on a S/8 print using some audio/video source is not the most straightforward task you might set on: in fact even if both film and sound source start at very same time from the very same frame, after a few dozens second the projector will be left somewhat behind and you'll have to compensate. This depends on the fact video runs at a locked rate of 25 frames per second, whereas film runs at 24 fps (but it's not locked and may vary by more or less 1-2 fps). So the only way to do this is using a quartz sync machine, unless you want/can compensate the difference in the speed moment by moment. Under this respect the Eumig (all of them from Series 900) has the edge over the Bauer; actually the Bauer T 610 is a better competitor under this point of vies as it features an electronically controlled CC motor which can be adjusted via a trim-pot (and it is not difficult to move such a control on the external board). But of course the Eumig allows you to perform these corrections without the need for mods. Ultimately, all considered, I'd go for the Eumig(s), especially if the task you are preparing to cope with is not too heavy.

Or you might ask someone in the forum who usually do this for others.

Hope this helps,

Maurizio

Posted by Koen Keevel (Member # 4109) on January 16, 2014, 01:32 AM:

Hi Maurizio,

Thanks for you answer.
Yes indeed the projectors are not flawless when ik comes to frame rate and being steady. But that's the hobby part [Smile]

And if you leave the sound rerecording aside. Would Eumig be still your/the choice?

Cheers

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on January 16, 2014, 01:50 AM:

No. My choice would be the Bauer: as a (luxurious) compromise, I think it has the edge over the Eumig because it quieter than the Austrian one and this makes it the perfect "lounge projector" ever. In addition, in case of troubles Bauers are eaiser to fix as the availability of spares is less scarce. Eumigs are better in the realm of sound quality record/playback: the electronics are stunning, the frequency response can easily outsmart any Elmo, the high end frequencies are very subtle, detailed yet delicate, in no way harsh as in some other machines. But the mechanics are equally resilient and the heads, as said, tend to wear a little faster (now unobtainable as far as I know). Do not take me wrong: noise (which can easily be withstood anyway) and head wear apart, I think the Emigs 938/940 are a better design and more precise construction overall (image steadiness is truly amazing, almost on par with a... slide projector, given excellent shot/prnted material), but the fact there is next to no assistance now, makes me a little nervous when I have to use my 938. That's why I tend to prefer/reccomend the Bauer T 600 or T 610.

Posted by Koen Keevel (Member # 4109) on January 16, 2014, 05:01 AM:

Thanks,

Think I'm buying the Bauer then.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 16, 2014, 05:32 AM:

The T610 is the better option for duplicating the sound as the t600 I believe suffers from more audible hum on playback. As for the argument between which is best between the Bauer T610 and Eumig S938, To me, their is absolutely no comparison as the Bauer is a far better built machine than the Eumig. In 1982 The Bauer was being sold for over £600 here in the UK while the Eumig was offered for less than £300 in Movie Maker magazines from that era. In the same era the only two other machines advertised for more in the Magazines were the GS1200 & the Beaulieu 708EL CD Stereo.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on January 16, 2014, 07:06 AM:

quote:
The T610 is the better option

Um.. Until the main control switch breaks! Bauer had a daft design right at the very end of the main control switch with a tiny pin made of light alloy and expected to turn a large bank of switches with plenty of strain. The main switch control shaft is deep within the back of the projector and such a pain to get to. For me it would be the Eumig 938 for this chappy.

Manufacturers could have also learned a great deal from the simplicity of design by looking at a 1937 Pathe Vox 9.5 sound projector perhaps and still going strong after 70 odd years.

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on January 16, 2014, 08:44 AM:

Andrew it's not just a matter of price: if you have a look inside the two machines they are very similar in terms of expected performances and the industrial cost of each might have been very similar. That said, Eumigs have in general better registration and the sound is better: you also claim the T600 is affected by hum... The T 610 has less hum, and the E 938 even less. The lens was superior on the Bauer but the Schneider Xenovaron 1.1 was also offered with EUmig's attachment.

Finally do not forget Eumig filed for bankruptcy in August 1981 so all the remaining stock was sold at bargain prices. And perhaps the Bauer T 610 and T 600 were a little overpriced for what they offered (?). Of course the "microcomputer" was a huge novelty at the time which helped increase the price and the fact E 938 doesn't have such a feature, also accounts for its lower price. But this should not detract from its intrinsic goodness which (noise and head wear apart) was not inferior to BAuer's. And yes the pin in the main control knob may be an issue but it can be prevented by loosening a bit the retaining spring, thus excising lower force on the innards. The drawback the positions of the knob are locked less snug but that's OK anyaway.

Posted by Koen Keevel (Member # 4109) on January 16, 2014, 03:05 PM:

Thanks a lot guys.
Well even more reason to buy the Bauer.
I read indeed the hummmmm difference between the T600 and the T610.
But I think I may survive that.

And if the overdubbing is going very bad. I have to wait and switch projectors in the future I guess.

Read about the elmo GS1200 too. Maybe in the future I have the money to buy one like this.

Nice picture Lee

Cheers

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on January 16, 2014, 11:00 PM:

I share Maurizio's enthusiasm for the Eumig 938. Here is a test report I wrote several years back:

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001710#000000

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on January 17, 2014, 02:42 AM:

The 938 is a better bet these days over the 940 as if the microprocessor goes it’s the end of the machine. A number of spares still turn up from time to time for the 900 range and recently I got a brand new stereo head which takes about 10 minutes to fit in the machine so quite simple to do. A very quiet machine, ideal for the living room with no light spill from the lamphouse top.

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on January 17, 2014, 03:39 AM:

Great article, Paul!!! Only one thing: the hinged pressure pad can be opened AND removed if you don't mind some fidgeting: you need a tiny screw driver to excise some force on the hinges, make them a little lose and remove the pressure pad for easy cleaning/replacement.

Putting it back is a little more difficult but certainly doable. And I love this machine too: I'm deeply convinced the fact it's superior to the Bauer T610 in terms of sound is largely accounted for by the clever sound board design/housing: a metal case (made of thick metal frame) under the machine is the best way to shield the electronics from hum. And if one has a look at the T 610's sound board and the 938's, it becomes apparent the latter has the edge in terms of neatness etc. A joy to behold, these Eumigs, even when disassembled... [Big Grin]

With very few drawbacks: apart from the ones already mentioned, the sliders are prone to breakdowns if you aren't very careful when using them. But defintely it's my choice when I can't use my GS Xenon.

I also have to agree with Lee: 938 is a better choice to the 940 because of the IC in the latter; Bolex Switzerland, the last remaining facility able to supply new old stock of spares, do not have this ICs any more. So I huess this is a typical situation where "less is more" or what does not exist, cannot go wrong.

Posted by Koen Keevel (Member # 4109) on January 17, 2014, 06:20 AM:

It almost sounds like one should buy the S938 above all. (apart from the 1200)
Found some for sale on the net.

But is the humming thing on a 8mm projector not a common problem?

Cheers

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 17, 2014, 06:39 AM:

Horses for courses of course,but to me much prefer the image quality and brightness as well as finding the layout on the Bauer far easier to work on. For example removing a circuit board typically means
Just unplugging a connection block. No resoldering ever needed so far to work on any part of the machine and i have removed most of it in the past 12 months to set up new cam and claw etc etc. I think the Eumig is a nice machine also but is difficult at times to work on. Ie to clean soundhead thoroughly on the Bauer you can simply unplug the 4pin connection block, remove to M2.5 set screws and the head is out of the machine for thorough cleaning and inspection. To do the same to the Eumig you must first purchase a dentists mirror such is the poor access to the head!

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on January 17, 2014, 08:27 AM:

I partially agree, Andrew: in fact to remove the sound presser block you only have to turn a retaining screw about 45° and the block can be pulled out.

But I guess everybody has his own preferencies/idiosincracies and some of them are more subjective than rational because some of us think certain aspects are more important than others. Indeed I think no machine has ever been considered as the perfect machine...

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on January 17, 2014, 09:50 AM:

I have a Eumig 938 and a Bauer 510. Both are stereo, and are very similar. Their counters are mechanical and not electronic.
I would find it difficult to rate one above the other.

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on January 18, 2014, 04:30 AM:

Well, we could start mentioning how practical it is to switch from one Rec/PB mode to another in the E 938 as well as transferring sound from one track to another. Also recording is very clever: two individual VU-meters (only one on the Bauers), and indipendent record level sliders. All in all, the Eumig S 938 is superior under most respects to the higher-end Bauers. And if it could be serviced as easily as the German machines, I'd reccomend it (or its elder brother 940) without reserve. Of course if one is more concerned about maintenance, quietness of operation and can live with the (few) Bauer's shortcomings, then that's what I'd suggest to buy, IMHO.

Posted by Koen Keevel (Member # 4109) on January 19, 2014, 09:15 AM:

Well bought the T600 2 days back, and very happy with it.
Have to test the recording functions though, but that will happen soon [Smile]

And the picture is very sharp comparing to my Heurtier.

Well thanks for all the advice!

Cheers

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on January 19, 2014, 12:02 PM:

Nice picture, Lee !

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 20, 2014, 01:27 AM:

Wise choice Koen! I doubt you will ever be disappointed with it's performance.

Posted by Koen Keevel (Member # 4109) on January 20, 2014, 07:05 AM:

So far it did not disappoint me indeed [Smile]

Had a nice film evening yesterday with "The Inspector General" as main title.

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