8mm Forum: Core gate the friendly version

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Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on February 19, 2014, 12:44 AM:

Ok so I am hoping that this nicely presents the questions that got out of hand earlier with Osi's core wrapping method.

I think the reason folks were responding with such fervor might be because so many of us have a small stack of prints like my photo indicates. I would potentially love to screen these prints and then sell them on, but really don't want to put them on valuable 1200' or 1600' reels just to watch and then sell off a faded optical sound print on reels that I desperately need and which are probably more valuable than the prints are.. Basically I would lose money to sell the prints on those large reels. I would love to know of a successful method to easily wrap them back onto the core to sell...It sounded like Osi has solved a problem that has plagued many of us, so in the exchange of information many of us are dying to see the method in action...I'm afraid some of the earlier posts may have taken on a seemingly hostile tone, but I honestly feel the real motivation might be a simple desire to know the secret...Please show us Osi we promise to be nice and still love you... [Smile]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on February 19, 2014, 07:13 AM:

Dino,

Excellent way of presenting the question.

Doug

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on February 19, 2014, 12:34 PM:

I agree. To be honest, I had never known that 8mm prints sometime came on cores or that there was such thing as a split reel for Super 8.

Thanks, Dino.

Osi...?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 19, 2014, 12:45 PM:

I will address this sometime in the near future (and yes, with photo's), but I am quite busy at this time with ...

Two music videos
One short film (10 minute production, "Wilding Whispered Entertainment"s very first actual short film!)
Selling a script in "Hollywoodland!"

... and trying to take care of a very sick little baby girl.

I will mention ahead of time, (and I didn't mention this before, which might have caused some confusion), my "coring apparatus" is only part of the set-up, the other part is my CHINON 9500 hundred, which supplies the "motor" for uncoring, while I use the small "handle" attachment, (well it's really not a handle, something I super glued to the Technicolor cartridge platter), to do the re-coring.

I will get to this, but don't be too annoyed if I don't get to it too soon. This other work takes up literally all my time.

What folks don't realize, is that I have an approximate 45 minute time limit to doing anything on the internet, which is sued to comment on here, as well as do ebay business ect.

So, patience please, I really do have other priorities.

OSI

P.S. Oh, I'm actually thinking about making it a short You Tube video, to actually show the process. If I do it that way, I'll simply put a link to the video.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on February 19, 2014, 01:09 PM:

quote:
P.S. Oh, I'm actually thinking about making it a short You Tube video, to actually show the process. If I do it that way, I'll simply put a link to the video.

That would be excellent. It should only take a few minutes to make, Osi. You wouldn't have to interrupt your schedule too much.

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on February 19, 2014, 03:07 PM:

Yes pretty please Osi, a video of you re-coring the film would be excellent since that is the really puzzling part of the scenario.

Getting them off the core seems fairly straightforward and Winbert's video showed at least one way of doing that... The conundrum is how to get the film tightly back onto the core...It seems anyway of doing so without actually having a "mystical" super 8 split reel will result in a loose wrap, which is not useful, and possibly detrimental to the film...

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 19, 2014, 03:52 PM:

Just a quick mention about not wanting to sell your "good" reels on films that have seen better days.

A cheap way, is to use old 12 inch LP Records, there are heaps around, much of which could be scratched and are being thrown out. All you need is a hole saw in a drill press to make lots of centre's out of a piece of wood, a half inch drill for the hole and a small file to slot it for the projector, and.... Bingo heaps of throw away 1200ft reels.

You could even, easily make a split reel out of those old records with around three screws holding the two half's and centre together.

Sorry if this is going of topic its... just food for thought [Smile]

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on February 19, 2014, 03:56 PM:

Yes but records are not really flat surfaces with the grooves so wouldn't that be problematic? It seems like a good idea and I have alot of scratched up records.... [Smile]

Bill

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 19, 2014, 04:05 PM:

I don't think so Bill, I have never made them myself, but do remember one local film collector doing just that and they seemed to work.

You could give it a go making just one Bill [Smile]

...and report back.

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on February 19, 2014, 04:18 PM:

You've got my wheels spinning now....I think I might look into it just to see. I have quite a few 16mm educational films on cores that I have had for years and have done nothing with because I don't have a split reel.

Bill [Smile]

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on February 20, 2014, 12:14 AM:

Bill I would give you a 1000' split reel if you pay the postage....
As for the records, i'd be afraid that while I am trying to watch Purple Rose of Cairo the film would be scratching out some Creedence Cleerwater Revival on the grooves. [Razz]

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on February 20, 2014, 11:38 AM:

Yeah, maybe I should be careful what records I choose to use! [Smile]

The split reel sounds like a very kind offer Dino...I'll send you a PM.

Bill [Smile]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 20, 2014, 12:56 PM:

oh!

Dino, until I can get that video (or photo's) done, when re-coring, I wind the film becak onto the "coring apparatus". I the take a small amount of tape and place it on the cored film, and then turn that apparatus upside down, causing the film to drop, unspoiled, onto the countertop (or where I happen to be at), I then remove that tape and before doing the final taping up, I simply pull the film, not too tightly, in order to tighten the overall core. However, as I am winding it back on, I also wind it fairly tightly as, sometimes, if you try to tighten it when you are done with the whole reel (I have learned this by trial and error), you can get what I would call a "warp" somewhere in the middle of the core, and then you have to unwind it all the way down to wherever the warp is, and recore from that point.

You know, the funny thing is, with all I have stated, over a period of a week or two on these two series of posts, a person should have a complete perspective as to how this is done, with or without photo, but photos will come. [Smile]

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on February 20, 2014, 01:33 PM:

quote:
...I simply pull the film, not too tightly, in order to tighten the overall core.

Say it ain't so, Joe....!
Cinch marks!!!
If you did that to a print, then you've most likely damaged the print, as any collector will tell you. Just to be on the safe side, you really should recheck those prints, Osi.

[ February 20, 2014, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Michael O'Regan ]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 21, 2014, 12:30 PM:

I thought that too, Micheal, so I checked a number of prints that I have cored, (this is in the distant past), and I have never seen a bit of damage to any of the prints.

Besides, it's not a harsh pull or anything like that, and usually, the way I core, it's usually not necessary.

In fact, I think that the only times where it has ever been problematic, is with old optical sound airline features, which are on polyester stock (in large part) and because of the optical soundtrack, are coated with something that I forget at the moment (the chemical) which is supposed to cause the prints to slide through the large cassette system more smoothly, it also caused problems for coring.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on February 21, 2014, 12:54 PM:

quote:
I thought that too, Micheal, so I checked a number of prints that I have cored, (this is in the distant past), and I have never seen a bit of damage to any of the prints.

...and following this check, did you recore them again using the same method?
[Smile]

Anyway, it's pretty obvious that you cannot vouch for the condition of any print which you recored using the method desribed. If you pull those prints, even a small amount, you WILL most likely cause cinch marks - that's a fact. There's a slim chance you might not on individual prints, but you can never be sure. Therefore, as you must be able to see by now, any prints which you have recored in the way you describe, and are now on sale or auction may have these marks. Any collector will agree that this is the case.

quote:
...the way I core, it's usually not necessary.

Well, you described the way you recore and this was described as being a normal part of the routine.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 21, 2014, 02:08 PM:

Its been an amazing topic to follow folks [Smile]

I think the core of this problem is not to use a core for Super8 in the first place.

You really are taking huge risks....if the centre of that film pops out and I have seen it happen with 35mm through lack of care, you will have film going everywhere, along with an excellent chance of marking the film...just getting it back together.

Use... "Reels" folks and only... Reels [Smile]

Graham.

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on February 22, 2014, 01:52 AM:

Graham
I know for myself, I am interested in Osi's method for the many films I have received on cores. I would never choose to put my 8 and super 8 films on cores simply because it is the only gauge I do not have a split reel for..

From what I can tell there are thousands of super 8 films out there in the world that are on these cores, so since someone has a method of properly handling the film on the cores I want to see it in action..It is fascinating news to me and potentially answers something that has plagued me personally (and professionally since I am a film archivist by day)for some time now.

Posted by Panayotis A. Carayannis (Member # 1220) on February 22, 2014, 03:28 AM:

I haven't seen 8mm films on cores ever since I was buying from Enrique Bouchard,who was selling the films on cores (and in black plastic bags,as "unexposed film"!)

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on February 22, 2014, 07:52 AM:

I have never come across 8mm films on cores either. The whole core thing, regardless of film size, seems to me to be a dumb idea, risking ruination of the film just to save a couple of bucks on a proper reel.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on February 22, 2014, 08:25 AM:

There was an eBay seller years ago who had multiple copies of two airline prints, Conduct Unbecoming & The Internecine Project . I had worked with 16mm on cores, but these were my first Super 8 cored films. I wonder if certain in-flight systems used a platter or split reel that made cored prints necessary.

Doug

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on February 22, 2014, 10:07 AM:

The first Super 8 projectors for airline use were a modification of the Technicolor projector which became known as the 1000B. It used cassettes with a capacity of 2,600 feet, enough for 130 minutes.

It came into use in 1971 and replaced the earlier 16mm projection which needed trained staff at each airport to change and thread the films.

The use of Super 8 enabled the cabin crew to change the films themselves.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on February 22, 2014, 12:29 PM:

I, too, am looking forward to seeing this apparatus in action. The other factor which intrigues me is how that glued handle works. For a good tight wind, constant and even winding is necessary, but, if my perception of what Osi has described is correct, one would have to stop the wind or at least remove one's hand once in every turn, in order to get out of the way of the film. Awkward to say the least.

C'mon, Osi, let's have a look. Interest is building.
[Smile]

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on February 22, 2014, 12:49 PM:

The widespread use of cores comes in from two sides. 1 - lab machines often required film to be on cores as reels would be too unstable..Usually there was a plate, then the film on the core, then a small metal arm that would be tightened down across the edge of the film....The other use today are in archives..We follow a general rule that when shelving films vertically we leave them on reels, but when stacking films horizontally on flat shelves we core them exclusively...I use cores on lots of films, but just not super 8...

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on February 22, 2014, 01:11 PM:

For me, in 16mm, cores are invaluable when buying from the US. Leaving the reels out of the package can quite drastically reduce shipping charges in some cases. Cores are easily handled if one has a split with which to do so.
If it was a title I really wanted and there was no other way, then I'd take Super 8 on cores if:

1) They were tightly wound
2) I had a Super 8 split reel.

However, because the gauge is so thin, I'd be less inclined to deal with Super 8 cored than with the larger gauges.

Osi,

I see you've relisted GWTW again.
I hate to labour the point but it concerns me that, if you recored in the manner you described, there may be cinch marks on the print. That would be very unfair for a buyer to find this out after paying for the print.

[ February 22, 2014, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Michael O'Regan ]

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on February 23, 2014, 12:08 AM:

[Frown]

Can we keep it friendly please...Just want to see the re-coring method in action, not re-ignite the previous thread. [Smile]

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on February 26, 2014, 05:08 PM:

quote:
Can we keep it friendly please.

Of course.

But, Osi....this is not going to go away. It will not just blow over. Too many people are interested, on the forums and beyond.
[Wink]

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on March 23, 2017, 03:03 PM:

3 years later...

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on March 23, 2017, 05:47 PM:

I never did try the record as a reel bit cause I got a nice split reel from Dino that I have used ever since. I wonder how Dino is? I hope he is doing well and screening films! [Smile]

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