8mm Forum: Problems feeding the film into my Eumig 810d

This is topic Problems feeding the film into my Eumig 810d in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009031

Posted by Eivind Mork (Member # 4174) on March 11, 2014, 03:29 PM:

Hi!

I have just bought an old Eumig 810D. It has not been much in use and seems to be in good shape. There is one problem though; it is very difficult to load the film correctly.

I have the manual for the projector, and I am supposed to push down a button at the front until the film has gone through the projector and is picked up by the reel at the back. I am also aware that the film should be trimmed into a half moon shape. I have the original trimmer for the projector and trims the film accordingly. The projector can play oth regular 8 and Super 8 by replacing a few parts. I have checked many times and I am certain that the correct Super 8 parts are the ones in place.

Even though I make sure to do things like the manual says, I have huge problems making the projector work correctly. It is nothing like the old Eumig P8 my parents still have. It almost never picked up the film incorrectly. With my new 810D it is at least a 50% chance the film clogs up when I feed it into the projector. Most of the time right before it should pass through the light, but a few times right after it has passed the lamp and should hit a small hole. Even when it has loaded correctly it can suddenly start to create a bad sound with the pictue jumping up and down. If I stop and plays backwards a second or two, it works correctly again.

I have no idea what could be going on. Any ideas? Should I lubricate some moving parts that has been still for years and years? In that case I have no idea which kind of oil to use. Any other ideas?

This drives me crazy, and I am very worried about my precious movies. I have order a few meters of a new white leader, but I can't keep on like this.

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on March 12, 2014, 12:31 AM:

Elvind if you can post some pictures or a video that would be very helpful as there are some definite Eumig users on here that will be able to help you, but need to know precisely where it is getting caught, etc....My first question is "When you say you run it backwards for a few seconds and then it plays correctly" Do you mean that it will run out the rest of the reel playing correctly? If that is the case then I would say check your top loop right after you load the film and make sure it is large enough to not be pulling on the film .....

I would also try the other sprocket wheels just to be sure, what's the worst that could happen you ruin a little more leader?

Those are the first two things I can think of that would cause a bad feed

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on March 12, 2014, 03:25 AM:

Also check the back sprocket film conveyor and the final exit assembly the film emerges through after loading. Even a peculiar bend at the very start of the leader may cause loading jam. Plus once the leader has jammed and turned into "salad", you better replace it: do not attempt to load that film again using the same piece of leader.

Posted by John Yapp (Member # 2873) on March 12, 2014, 04:09 AM:

are you making sure you are feeding the film through to the take-up reel without the lamp on? It will cause problems otherwise.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on March 12, 2014, 04:39 AM:

John makes an important point.
The film will only pass through on its auto-thread if the lamp is not on.
This is due to the fact that parts of the auto-thread system are released as soon as the lamp is switched on.

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on March 12, 2014, 10:06 AM:

mine has problems exiting towards the very end it has an adjustable lever guide that guides the film out to the take up reel, and it is possible there is a small piece of film that is jammed in there as well.

Posted by Zechariah Sporre (Member # 2358) on March 12, 2014, 10:20 AM:

I imagine you've already checked it out, but is it possible maybe the the claw pin got damaged at some point (like somebody pulled the gate out with out it being in the right position)? As a side note, I once had a Eumig 804D and it wasn't feeding correctly most of the time. It ended up being a small chunk of film broken of in the sound head.

Posted by Eivind Mork (Member # 4174) on March 12, 2014, 02:28 PM:

Thank you for all the good answers. I really appreciate it!

Unfortunately the projector is at my cabin (where we are almost every weekend) and not in the apartment where I am now, so I couldn't take a picture of own projector, but I found a picture on google and tried to mark the spots where it clogs.

It most of the time clogs up at the spot on the top, like two out of 3 times or so. The rest clogs up at the spot below.

The situation where I have to run it backwards a bit to make it run correctly it usually happens pretty early in the film. It has happened more than once a couple of times during the same film, but most of the time it behaves correctly after I have done this once.

The lamp is not on when this happens.

I did look at the claw pins, but when you mention it I probably should check this again more carefully. I probably also should try the other gears, although I am pretty certain I use the correct ones.

I have looked for broken pieces, but I probably should look more carefully.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on March 12, 2014, 03:56 PM:

quote:
.....I did look at the claw pins.....

As this is a dual model it only has one claw.
To check if you have the correct sprockets in place remove them and hold them against your film to see if the teeth engage correctly.
Also, ensure that the correct gate is installed.

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on March 13, 2014, 12:30 AM:

Eivind
Another simple thing to double check that could cause it to jam in those spots is the curl on the film. If it is curling a little too much in either direction it can cause the film to just miss its mark and jam.. .I always load the film with the cover off for this very reason.. Plus if the film loads incorrectly that could cause a small loop, which might get corrected by the reverse...Next time you use it
1 - Check that the film is not too curled (especially not up)when you load.
2 - Make sure that the film has proper sized loops before running it after loading..
then report back w/ pictures.

Posted by Eivind Mork (Member # 4174) on March 13, 2014, 01:23 AM:

My English is not very good, and I thought the claw pins meant the pins on the gears. I have googled a bit and now understand what you mean with sprocket and claw pins.

What I did check was the sprockets. I have not investigated the claw. After your suggestions that should be the first thing for me to check when I get back to the projector.

Checking that the leader is not too curly sounds very reasonable. I will definately check into that.

I did not understand this sentence: "Make sure that the film has proper sized loops before running it after loading.." What kind of loops do we talk about here?

Thanks again for all the help!

Posted by Paul Mason (Member # 4015) on March 13, 2014, 09:35 AM:

Dino means film loops formed above and below the gate and pressure plate, approximately where you marked the problem areas on the your picture.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on March 13, 2014, 10:11 AM:

Sounds just like my 710D when I got that. I got the sandpaper advice and that helped on it. Also when I use this now, I let it run for some twenty seconds or so, so the motor spin up all the way. The balls slipped on the rubber plate on the spinning wheel inside. I sandpapered that and it now works acceptably. Not sure this is the same.

Posted by Eivind Mork (Member # 4174) on March 22, 2014, 04:00 PM:

I am finally back at my cabin so I could do some more tests. I will bring the projector back with me back home when I leave and keep it home until this problem is resolved.

I checked again that I had the correct gears. They match perfectly to the film as press a bit of leader against the gears.

I also checked that I had the correct gate. The other has a smaller sized "window" which must be for the standard 8.

Here is a image of a jam situation:

And here a more close up image of the same jam:

As seen, the leader has passed the gate, but not entered the hole for the sound head. The end of the leader is top right in the close up picture. I made sure the claw pin was retracted, and tried to push a bit of leader through the gate while pressing the auto feed button down. The film tended to stop dead at the point where it should have made a turn and go into the opening for the sound head. Bending the film more downwards could possible help a bit here.

Here is a picture of the claw pin:

It looks ok to me.

I have looked very carefully for small pieces of film stuck somewhere, but haven't found any. I have not looked past the opening for the sound head, but to me it looks like the jamming happens before the sound head opening.

Running 6 films tonight only resulted in two jam situations. Being super quick turning the motor off, I did not destroy too much leader :-)

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2