8mm Forum: A modified Elmo super 8mm for very large capacity (3000')

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on May 20, 2014, 04:04 AM:

On Ebay.de:

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Objet-tres-rare-Derouleur-Elmo-pour-film-Super-8-capacite-900m-/301186790020?pt=FR_JG_Photo_Camescopes_Cameras&hash=item462021b284

cheers,

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on May 20, 2014, 04:40 AM:

It's from a French seller. Note that this is only for the long play unit, large capacity reels are extra.
And this will work on most Elmo of the ST and GS series, their metal frame being able to handle the extra weight of reels and motors. Just be careful with the front foot and general stabilization of the assay.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on May 20, 2014, 06:11 AM:

The projector is indeed not included in the price, nor are the reels.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on May 20, 2014, 06:46 AM:

I'm always weary of these long play units, I'm sure there's never a problem but are these or any projector made to continue without stopping for these long periods? I'd prefer to find a projector like a beaulieu or Fumeo which are made to take the larger reels, personally,(only my own opinion) I think 1200 (or 1600 smaller core reels) are more than adequate. Or of course use two projectors [Big Grin]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 20, 2014, 02:32 PM:

Ive run my Bauer T610 with the Spondon Long Play unit for over 3 years now with absolutely no detriment to the projector whatsoever. If anything it gets an easier ride as all of its own internal drive mechanism has to do is transport the film through the film path. I can honestly say the machine runs even smootherand quieter with the long play unit attached than without. So much so that if I even project 800ft reels, I use the long play unit to preserve my 610 motor for as long as possible. The pj runs at least 6 hours a week this way and has done for the entire time Ive had it!

Also, there is no such thing as a professionally manufactured 3000ft Super 8 reel. The largest... shown here ... are 2300ft.

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on May 20, 2014, 02:40 PM:

It looks top heavy. Like it will tip over if not set up properly.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 20, 2014, 02:45 PM:

It wont as the Pj is more than heavy enough to cope with the extra load but nevertheless that is why the Spondon is a far superior design as it comes with its own plinth which the PJ also sits on.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on May 20, 2014, 02:50 PM:

Much cheaper to buy a second projector.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 20, 2014, 03:49 PM:

The problem with two machines is that you still need to have two projector stands, then be able to sync all of the ends and beginnings of the following reels to give off a professional show. That's quite besides the fact that then you will need a separate two channel audio mixer on the projector stands lower tier to connect both sets of audio outputs from each machine to one common amplifier serving the screening room speakers etc etc. Before you know it your living room very quickly resembles a BBC studio set with cables everywhere!

Far simpler is to have the trailer, daysets, ads etc etc all assembled onto one reel and then professionally screen the entire movie from start to finish in one pass using one projector. Gives off just the best home movie viewing possible using "reel" film.

[ May 21, 2014, 04:28 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on May 20, 2014, 04:07 PM:

My usual projection style really needs two machines: usually it's just me watching and the show kind of evolves as the reels pass. I can't really make up a show in advance most times.

Audio hookup is usually through a box with a DPDT switch when I'm keeping it simple, but I also have a 4 channel mixer/graphic equalizer for when I want a few too many controls to contend with.

I don't do perfect changeovers. I don't charge admission either!

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on May 20, 2014, 04:14 PM:

Andrew, I have also the Spondon Long Play Unit and I haven't had any trouble with it so far. However, I would not use it with "simple" projectors, as I always fear a risk of overheating (from the bulb) as the ventilation may have been calculated for limited time and not for one hour or one hour and the half uninterrupted show. I haven't seen any larger spool than 750 meters (2200 feet) but in the ad, the seller says he can provide 700 meters to 900 meters spools.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 20, 2014, 05:13 PM:

700m spools are the largest professional manufactured super 8 spools ever made. Anything bigger has been knocked up in someones shed perhaps.

I agree Dominique that the minimum specification for a projector to be used in conjunction with a long play unit ought to be 800ft reel capacity, double sprocket mechanism and have a lamp capacity of 150w minimum. Then again who on earth would wish to watch a feature on less?

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on May 21, 2014, 02:38 AM:

Yes. Two projectors need two stands. A fact of life. I have many stands. No problem.

As for connections I have a Bell & Howell change-over unit, originally sold for the TQII model it can be used with any projector, 16mm or Super 8 provided it has a transistor amplifier. I have added jack sockets in addition to the DIN sockets supplied.

It has one mains inlet and one speaker outlet. It has fixed leads for projector connections. One mains inlet for each projector, and one speaker connection for each projector. There is also a flying lead with a push switch.

In use, proj 1 is selected on the change-over switch and the projector operated manually to run reel 1 to start the show. Proj 2 has its operating knob set to run with lamp on, but, of course, it does not yet run.

The incoming projector is laced to start on picture. At changeover the switch is pushed over, power is now transferred to proj 2 which starts immediately, as the amp is transistorised the sound comes on immediately.

If there is to be a reel 3, proj 1 can be run for auto thread by pushing the flying lead switch (remember not to have the lamp on).

It's all very simple and keeps wiring to a minimum.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 21, 2014, 04:35 AM:

Not as simple as one complete film on one reel though Maurice,nor anywhere near as enjoyable except perhaps for very long feature films such as GWTW etc where an interval is most welcomed.

Being a Beaulieu owner as you are Maurice, I am surprised you are not an advocate of the same yourself and take full advantage of all that reel space. [Wink]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on May 21, 2014, 05:51 AM:

I have 56 Super 8 projectors. each used in turn with my 16mm, therefore my Beaulieu and my Fumeo showings would be time-consuming if I made up features onto their large spools.

My largest spools for features are 600' as these can be used on any projector.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 21, 2014, 06:34 AM:

Fair point Maurice, you are the King of private film libraries my friend! [Wink]

56 Super 8 Projectors!!! I doubt I could even afford your lamp bill! ha ha

[ May 21, 2014, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Lars-Goran Ahlm (Member # 1908) on May 21, 2014, 03:33 PM:

I remember that Kempski had two catalogues in the late 1980:s. One for film and the other for A/V, I had (still have?) them both. In the A/V catalouge they sold a long-play unit, for super 8, that took reels up to 1800 Meters. They also sold large reels in various sizes. Don't remember them all, but I know they had a 1200 meter size, because they had a picture of one with the feature of "West Side Story" on it. It was the complete film and there was plenty of room left on the reel, since 1200 meters would be some 195-200 minutes of running time.
I don't remember prices, but Kempski was always expensive. Remember dreaming of winning on the lottery and being able to buy this long-play unit and then having all my features uninterrupted, including "The Godfather", the longest film without intermission I have on 8MM.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 21, 2014, 04:10 PM:

Must be extremely rare Lars, I for one, have never seen any. These rare reels must surely have been specifically made for their own LPU, the only long play reels that actually fit any projector as standard are 700m (2300ft) max.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on May 21, 2014, 11:43 PM:

ANdrew, I would say the normal "bigger size" is 750 meters.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 22, 2014, 06:18 AM:

Not according to Beaulieu. Their spools are 700m or 2300ft as per the Beaulieu handbook and sales brochures etc etc. Maybe they would hold slightly more on very thin Polyester stock but officially it's 700m. Can't speak for the Fumeo as I don't own one but for Beaulieu it is definately 700m. The newly up and running Super 8 database confirms this.

The Fumeo spools, as I have just seen on the database, do indeed hold 750m Dominique, but even this falls way short of 3000ft as 750m actually works out at approximately 2460ft.

So I return to my earlier statement which was, if there is such a thing as a 3000ft Super 8 reel, it is not professionally supported by any actual projector and were probably just manufactured by Kempski specifically for their own LPU.

[ May 23, 2014, 05:26 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on May 22, 2014, 10:44 AM:

I have no idea who manufactures (or manufactured) 3000 feet spools. As you said, 750 meters is common for Fumeo (http://www.bd-cine.com/fiche.php?id=5312). Julio Castells in Spain still manufactures 800 meters spools (for his, still manufactured, long play unit).

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