8mm Forum: Need HELP with Bauer/Silma Super 8 projectors

This is topic Need HELP with Bauer/Silma Super 8 projectors in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009621

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on December 12, 2014, 11:17 AM:

I have two super 8 projectors (Bauer and Silma) with the same problem: the loop reformer is blocked!

They are very similar internally and infact the internal mechanism of the loop reformer, which is my problem here, is exactly the same.

In both projectors it is completely blocked on the right and it doesn't work and move at all!
If I try to move manually the roller towards the natural position (on the left) it's very hard and even impossible to move it!
So it remains all in the right position but in this case the loop reformer doesn't work at all!

I attach a photo here below

Of course this creates a problem also to the film when it tries to enter in the sound heads...

Any help to have the mechanism again free to rotate as it should?

Thanks
Flavio

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on December 12, 2014, 11:31 AM:

Flavio, did you try removing the film gate (the white metal part) to see if something was in the way ? Unplug the projector, rotate the control knob to the rewind position, then remove the film gate by pressing on the spring that is at the bottom left of the gate (bottom of your picture).

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on December 12, 2014, 11:55 AM:

Hi Jean_Marc,

yes I already tried to remove the film gate easily, but I didn't find anything that could block the mechanism...

Indeed if I force and pull the mechanism through its rotation axes it moves, but it is very hard!

I can't believe that it's a problem of grease only for it, because any other mechanism around it is very free to move.

Flavio

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on December 12, 2014, 12:41 PM:

As you certainly know, the Bauer T1XX series were manufactured by Silma. The Bauer T180, for instance, is the same machine as the Silma S233.
Anyways...
Any resistance from the loop lever (the loop restorer command that's located at the front of the projector) ?

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on December 12, 2014, 01:16 PM:

Indeed i didn't know that SILMA produced BAUER models... I could expect the countrary...

Anyway, the loop lever can freely go down, but of course, it doesn't press anything because the loop mechanism is already down, at end run...

The same happens on both projectors! That's really crazy for me!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 12, 2014, 01:34 PM:

Cannot answer what your problem may be Flavio as I have never had an issue with this mechanism on the T610.(very similar)

All I can say is it is a very simple lever mechanism (if like the T610 as it appears to be) with a simple mechanical spring to return it into position if depressed so it really should be very simple to get to the bottom off the problem.

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on December 12, 2014, 02:21 PM:

hi Andrew,

just a question... when you rotate the main knob to move to the first position to thread the film and then to the second positon to light on the lamp, can you see any movement of this mechanism?
I mean, does it move from left to right and then returning back in the left position in order to be pulled by the loop lever to reform the loop in case of need?

Flavio

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 12, 2014, 02:35 PM:

Off memory Flavio, the mechanical switch mechanism and linkages definitely moves the roller and bottom shoe first together while threading and then apart when projecting in normal "lamp on" position.

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on December 12, 2014, 02:47 PM:

So there should be something that completely block the roller because it doesn't move at all when rotating the main knob in forward or rear position...

I can't understand what is! And again ... In both projectors!

Just for information... The Silma is Delta 4, which I use for standard 8, and the Bauer is the T190 ML whose optical reproduction is absolutely fantastic!
I never heard an optical reproduction like this even in any of my Elmo Gs 1200 or ST 1200, believe me!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 12, 2014, 02:54 PM:

I have the T190 ML myself Flavio and yes,it does have fine reproduction of the optical track but sadly no top sprocket or else it would be my number 1 choice for optical prints alongside the Spondon. As for your other machine, all I can think is that one of your linkages has become detached on a pivot point which would make sense of what you are experiencing or possibly a worn cam from the main switch.

Posted by Heinrich Kronschlaeger (Member # 145) on December 13, 2014, 03:14 AM:

Flavio wrote:"Indeed if I force and pull the mechanism through its rotation axes it moves, but it is very hard!
I can't believe that it's a problem of grease only for it, because any other mechanism around it is very free to move."

This is indeed a problem of grease only. It is a very common and known issue with Bauer T*** projectors. I had the same fault with a T502, a T510 and a T520 and I was able to fix the problem in a simple way.
Add very fine oil (sewing machine oil is not good) to the rotating axis and move the part many, many times back and forth. Turn the switch on forward and back to 0. The part will move easier and easier, but that can take much time.
Kind regards
Henry

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 13, 2014, 06:00 AM:

oh well all good then if it is just a case of adding some lubrication.I shall take note more on my T610 now I know this area can be problematic. So far though, I have never had any issue like this thankfully. Good luck with your machine Flavio.

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on December 13, 2014, 08:54 AM:

Hi Henry,

Following your suggestion, I first tried to unblock the mechanism and used a lubrificant called Svitol ( from Arexons) and Indeed I'm now able to move easier the part, even if it is not completely free.
It should return natural position by itself, while instead now I have to pull it manuallly...

It's clear now that the problem is really the grease...

You suggest to use 'fine OIL" and not the sewing machine OIL. Which one should I use exaclty?

Thanks
Flavio

Posted by Heinrich Kronschlaeger (Member # 145) on December 13, 2014, 12:52 PM:

Hi Flavio,
I used CRAMOLIN Sprühöl ( SPRÜHÖL 200ml spray can - highly effective thin liquid lubricant - ITW Cramolin - 1111411 - Displaces moisture and water )
Henry

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on December 13, 2014, 01:02 PM:

Hi Henry,

thanks for the information...

i've just discovered that even if the effect on both projectors is the same, the cause is not!

Infact, on the Bauer the problem is related to the grease and i worked in this direction as suggested by you.

On the Silma, the mechanism is capable of going a bit further on the left (really freely), but it cannot return at all in its original position on the right. I mean that here there is no problem of grease, but there should be something that is clearly blocking the return of the roller back.

[Mad]

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on December 14, 2014, 11:30 PM:

Just an update....

The Bauer is now fixed thanks to the suggestion of Henry!!! [Smile]

So far I used only the Svitol to unblock, and now I should add some oil.

The Silma is still not functioning and I'm getting crazy because I really can't understand why the roller can't move back on the left position....

Any other suggestion?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 15, 2014, 05:09 AM:

Well done Henry & Flavio! Also thanks Henry for this top tip!

As for your Silma Flavio, is there perhaps a broken or snapped mechanical spring stopping the correct return of the roller or perhaps a damaged pivot point on one of the links?

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on December 15, 2014, 08:48 AM:

Hi Andrew,

I agree with you... the point is that I suspect I have to disassemble some parts in order to see what's happened but I don't know form where to start....

I guess that a service manual is not available for these small projectors, don't I?

[Roll Eyes]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 15, 2014, 08:50 AM:

Yes it will be Flavio for most, certainly is for the T610 from Old Timer Cameras once again.

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2