8mm Forum: Eumig RS3000

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Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 12, 2015, 11:28 AM:

When playing Super 8 sound film on the Eumig I get a lot of background hum which is quite annoying. Does anyone know how to reduce or eliminate the hum?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 12, 2015, 11:35 AM:

I have to answer your question with a question, or several.

Is this hum through the internal speaker, or are you connecting it to an external amp?

If it's through an amp, does it still hum even with the projector sound powered "off"?

Hum shows up for a lot of different reasons, and you can do everything you should to fix it for one reason and not make a bit of difference if it's one of the others.

I chased the wrong reason for years before I figured that out!

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 12, 2015, 02:35 PM:

Hello Steve
I guessed you be the one to have an answer. The hum is present through the internal speaker and also using an extension speaker and just using the built-in amp, not an external amp. The hum is directly proportionate to the volume used ie. the more volume used the louder the hum.
Terry

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on March 12, 2015, 03:02 PM:

Eumig were famous for their hum.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 12, 2015, 03:07 PM:

They did get it right though, as Paul A advocates, the S938/40 have a fabulous stereo sound stage with minimal hum. As good as I've heard on any machine.

Hum can always be eliminated if you can find the correct areas that need grounding better than they currently are.
Static can play a big part on hum from the transport drum etc.

Until I got to the bottom of it, my Spondon long play arms always generated loads of hum through the Bauer and it was always static related. Before I got to the bottom of the problem I used to always run a separate earth lead from the frame of it through to the earth terminal on my mixer.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 12, 2015, 03:25 PM:

OK,

So what you have is internal hum, not an external ground loop. This can be the result of grounding problems inside the machine, or electrolytic power supply capacitors that have dried out and have fallen in value or magnetic pickup.

Pickup is the collision of two things that happen at once: one is the fact that we have this very sensitive sound head sensing this feeble little magnetic field on the stripe and sending it off to be amplified into sound, the second is we have this great big power transformer with a huge magnetic field that can't help but share a little with the sound head.

Eumig wasn't very shy about putting the transformer closer to the head than they should have, and particularly on the 800 series this is a big part of the hum problem. I don't know your machine as well, but the same people designed it.

Try this: if you are wearing a wedding ring, bring it close (not touching...) to the head and see if the hum changes in volume. (DON'T get married just so you can do this!)

This is a good thing to try first because it's easy and free.

By the way, is this a new problem, or just a "new" machine?

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 12, 2015, 03:32 PM:

Thanks Steve I will try that. I like your sense of humour. No wonder you like
L & H. Films.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 12, 2015, 03:42 PM:

With either Stan or Ollie in the room, I'd keep my machines locked away!

(Remember what they did to that piano?)

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 12, 2015, 03:50 PM:

[Big Grin]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on March 15, 2015, 03:26 AM:

Here is the Eumig RS3000.
http://www.super8data.com/database/projectors_list/projectors_eumig/eumig_rs3000.htm

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on March 15, 2015, 09:19 AM:

I think when you see that picture that Maurice linked to, it suddenly dawns on you the reason behind the infamous sprocketless coaxial reel arrangement that plagued the early 900 series machines.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 16, 2015, 12:11 PM:

Doug Meltzer has one of these that pops the fuse every time he lights the lamp. I brought it home from CineSea to use the 6 months in-between to try to figure out what was wrong. (Life being what it was at the time it grew into a year!)

I managed to isolate it down to some fault inside the lamp circuit that shorted when the lamp low/high switch went to "high", but the thing is such a puzzle-box I could never get to where the problem was!

-It's one of these setups where you take out every screw you can see, then start looking for every screw you can't see. (Translation: "Do not repair me unless you are factory trained and have the service manual.")

I conceded defeat, put it back together and brought it back to him.

I know there's been a lively Elmo/anti-Elmo debate for a long time here (...as long as it stays civil!), but one of the plusses is they are put together logically and when things go astray they usually cooperate when under repair!

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on March 16, 2015, 12:27 PM:

Well Steve, one of the things that I think is nice about the Eumig 900 stereo machines, is the fact that the electronics is all on one very neat board which is mounted by itself inside the base of the machine, totally separated from all the mechanical stuff. I don't know if that helps or hinders servicing electronic problems, but it certainly looks like a very neat electronic packaging design. Contrast that with the GS where the electronics are strung all around the machine on multiple boards and modules, all hooked together by wire harnesses and connectors.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 16, 2015, 12:39 PM:

That reflects my personal biases:

I'm an electronics guy: multiple boards connected by harnesses are just another day on the job. (My current project is a single machine the size of a decent-sized shopping mall! -miles and miles and miles of harnesses...)

I tend to like isolating functions to different assemblies as well (at least as a troubleshooter...) It makes placing blame easier and if you are lucky enough to have substitutes you can swap boards until the thing works again.

(Beware scenarios where one assembly is damaging another, though.)

What I like to see when I'm working on something is assemblies held down with a couple of decent sized chromed #6 screws, plainly visible, of a small variety of lengths, easily accessed and with the very user-friendly #1 or #2 Phillips head! I am wary of Allen heads, little hexes and whacky stuff like torx heads.

-I spend enough time at Sears as it is!

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on March 16, 2015, 12:48 PM:

Hello. Would it be possible to post a couple of phtos of the innards of this specific Eumig model (lamp side)? Thank you.

Posted by frank arnstein (Member # 330) on March 17, 2015, 05:35 AM:

Here is a pic Maurizio.

dogtor

[ March 17, 2015, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Douglas Meltzer ]

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on March 17, 2015, 04:34 PM:

Thank you, Frank. I just wanted to check which sound head assembly this specific model has: I no see it features the usual assembly found on model 905 and up, except the stereo models and model 936 934. I've always wondered why was it that Eumig devised two totally different sound heads with their respective head mounts...

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 17, 2015, 06:30 PM:

Purely based on cost on Maurizio.

I have a DVD that shows the Eumig plant in operation at their height of their innovation in the very late 70's / early 80's and by then they were manufacturing almost every single component for their machines in house.

Even their lenses were made in the same factory!

Given the depth of the operation at the time, it isn't surprising that they manufactured many different magnetic heads dependant on each machines price tag and design requirements at the time.

If Super 8 had survived as the main amateur movie making format for even just a few years more, I am certain they would have made THE machine to beat from a performance perspective.

They were always very price and budget conscientious, so they may not have given us a projector made from the highest quality components or build quality, but from a purely performance based perspective, they were already well on track to outperform most others by the time they manufactured what turned out to be their last two flagship models with a huge emphasis on sound quality achievable from the tiny magnetic stripes.

[ March 19, 2015, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 17, 2015, 06:37 PM:

I've been running my Bolex SP-80 Special (rebadged Eumig 800 Series) quite a bit since I finally figured out how to get it to play nice with my sound system.

It has a couple of things about it that are a little quirky, but it's a nice running machine and I'm enjoying it.

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on March 18, 2015, 08:21 AM:

Thanks, Andrew. BTW where did you get that DVD?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 18, 2015, 08:35 AM:

I will try to send you a copy if you like Maurizio? It was a bonus feature on the end of one of the BFCC discs. Can't remember which off the top of my head but a really interesting article.

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on March 18, 2015, 10:11 AM:

Please I'd really love to!. I'll PM soon. Thank you.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 18, 2015, 10:16 AM:

I will have to go through them again Maurizio and find the article. Once I have, I will make you a copy of it and hopefully convert it small enough in size to be able to mail it to you in MP4 format or similar. You will then be able to run it on your pc.

I have found the chapter on the disc now Maurizio.
It also contains a section about the RS3000. I am converting it at the moment to an avi file so I will let you know what size it finishes up at. Hopefully I will be able to mail it electronically.
I will keep you posted.

[ March 18, 2015, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 18, 2015, 02:28 PM:

I have managed to post this on the web now so all can enjoy.
It is really interesting and should provide an insight to what I was saying to Maurizio hopefully.

https://vimeo.com/122564019

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on March 18, 2015, 03:52 PM:

Awesoooooooome!!!!
Thanxxxx so much. Really interesting. A jump into the past when manufacturing really had value: R&D was R&D and hardware was hardware, as durable as it could be. That's what our hobby is all about after all, isn't it?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 18, 2015, 04:47 PM:

Man after my own heart Maurizio!!

I think I will watch it again now I am no longer distracted by my very average football team! (this Year)lol [Wink]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 19, 2015, 01:09 PM:

That was great!

It's easy to forget what a big industry small-gauge film once was. They had multi-million dollar machinery running every day making things we hope 3D printing can make just a few of now.

The RS-3000 segment was interesting: I've never heard such clinical narration in a commercial before!

"We were all delighted by Peter's successful birthday party"

How do they measure success of a five year old's birthday party? Did they make budget? Was the ice cream served at optimal temperature? Did he blow out ALL the candles?

It's been our impression that no kid's birthday party passes without the guest of honor winding up sent to his room in tears.

-Maybe this kid held it together just that once!

Well, I hope having met his birthday goals Peter got a raise that year...

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 19, 2015, 01:42 PM:

Thank you for the link, Andrew !

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 19, 2015, 01:43 PM:

Only glad you can now view it Dominique, and indeed everyone else. [Smile]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 19, 2015, 05:21 PM:

I have the second film of your video (the RS 3000 presentation) on super 8 with a French sound (but my copy is red). It is to note that this sound film runs at 18 fps, which is unusual for sound films.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 19, 2015, 05:29 PM:

Thats a nice find Dominique! [Razz]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on March 19, 2015, 06:23 PM:

Andrew, any chance you can put that video on YouTube?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 20, 2015, 07:32 PM:

I will try tomorrow for you Paul. I am not a member on You Tube so i will have to join, but I will give it my best shot.

Can you not view Vimeo Paul?

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on March 20, 2015, 07:40 PM:

Time for a new computer Andrew. I can't get Vimeo for some reason, but YouTube works fine. Don't sweat it if it is a major hassle for you. I am in the market for a new PC so I will just have to wait to see that Eumig video.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 20, 2015, 07:47 PM:

Paul, simply send me your e mail address privately once again, and in 10 minutes time you can be watching this fabulous archive footage that I know, if you have not already seen it, you will truly appreciate!! [Smile]

No, I've tried to no avail Paul, will have to go again with it tomorrow Paul, just too big to post sorry [Frown]

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