8mm Forum: Whats your favourite Projector Lens?

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Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 13, 2015, 05:03 PM:

Lenses seem to be the topic of the day by and large, therefore I put to you the question:

Whats your favourite projector lens and why do you prefer this lens? Please include Anamorphic lenses also.

Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on April 13, 2015, 05:14 PM:

in the early years the black debrie which had the 25 watt amp I have ones in original condition which my father bought new and it still runs superb .later on in years has to be the bell and howell 644 magnetic and optical playback and record I have 4 off these manual thread with also a 25watt amp

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 13, 2015, 05:16 PM:

Lovely projectors mentioned there of great sentimental value it would appear David, but how about lenses?

BTW David, as your father was a cine showman, what films did you enjoy watching in your informative years? This would make a great topic I feel... films that gave us the WOW factor when we were kids up on the magical silver screen during those winter months back in the day! [Smile]

I had to do my own i have to say, Dad was superb but never had any desire to own a cine camera or the likes. He was a great audience provider though despite falling asleep and snoring at 90 dba to Memories Of Me! Ha ha.

I suppose he can be forgiven, even I had only one eye open during this optical feature and it was my passion and hobby! [Big Grin]

Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on April 13, 2015, 05:22 PM:

I have zoom lenses for both the debrie zoom is very are I bet no one has a genuine zoom lens for the debrie and the 644 has a zoom as well its f1.3 30mm to 70mm

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 13, 2015, 05:25 PM:

Zoom facility for those machines, I believe is very rare indeed. I shall do some research to find out more David, very interesting thanks.

Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on April 13, 2015, 05:33 PM:

my father owned a cinema for about 7 years in the early 70s I remember watching bond films before any of my school pals in the lates 60s .he had all the musicals and lots of british features which I now own and have added them to mine making it over 1000 features to date and about 900 shorts

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 13, 2015, 05:43 PM:

Wow!! Fantastic David. What a childhood!!

You certainly have many a film well worthy of treasuring, thats for sure. [Smile]

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on April 13, 2015, 05:45 PM:

For a Super 8 machine, I like the Bolex Hi Fi 14-25mm f/1.3 zoom lens. High quality optics, fast 1.3 and the zoom allows you to get the image size you desire without moving the projector or screen.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 13, 2015, 05:48 PM:

Never had or even seen one in action Barry, but I do know Bolex anything gains much respect in the hobby including of course, their lenses above all else.

Thanks Barry.

BTW what does Hi fi mean when applied to lenses? Sankyo do a similar thing with their top lens.

Is it simply " High Fidelity" or am I showing my ignorance perhaps?

Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on April 13, 2015, 05:49 PM:

re super 8 .me and my father never liked super 8 to us it was like watching a film with sand in your eyes but everyone is entitled to what they want .I believe standard 8 knocked the spots of super 8 would this be correct . I also own a damson 540 16mm which he bought new from profits cine shop in Bolton

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 13, 2015, 06:00 PM:

I only remember Mathers in Bolton David. As for Standard 8 vs Super 8, all I know is when when my dear old Dad sold all of my silent standard 8mm stuff (which incidentally, was really hard to shift even back then), I simply could not believe the difference when he obliged me with my very first Super 8mm sound projector!

The picture from the 100w Xenophot lamp (even back then) was simply stunning! knocked spots off anything I had ever seen on Standard 8mm.

I guess it all depends on what title and what distributer.

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on April 13, 2015, 08:39 PM:

Andrew, one definition of fidelity is " degree of accuracy or exactness". This applies to both audio and video. So, your High Fidelity is correct. Over here HiFi was used early on when referring to audio systems, but I had never seen it used when referring to video (optics). The Bolex Hi Fi lens are very sharp.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 13, 2015, 08:44 PM:

Thanks Barry for the informative explanation, I suppose then that is what Sankyo intended from the description when they gave their F1.0 lens the exact same title?

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on April 13, 2015, 09:16 PM:

I'm sure that is the case, Andrew. There is likely no copyright on the term.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on April 13, 2015, 09:24 PM:

My favorite lens is the Elmo 1.0 zoom lens. Beautiful large bright picture sharpness from edge to edge as proven with the SMPT film. Only problem is that they are all not of such high quality. So you have to search for one. I went through 3 of them till I found my latest one which is perfect!
My 2nd favorite lens is the Schneider 11-30mm 1.1. The one on my Beaulieu is very, very sharp, and the one they made for the Elmo is just as sharp. Strangely though the one on the Bauer is not as sharp from edge to edge as the Beaulieu/Elmo one. Maybe its the projector?
And my last 2 really great lenses are the 1.2 Elmo Long Throw..such a sharp image. As sharp as the 1.0 and easier to focus. But its a 22mm zoom so the image size is small unless you have a very long throw. But the build quality is stellar.
Last but not least is an Ektar 1.0 lens that came off the Kodak M100A Projector. This is not a zoom lens and its a 22mm prime but the picture is probably the best out of them all. Less glass so the picture is surgically sharp and beautiful contrast. That lens has everything. Except? Its 22mm so its only good for a long throw.
I had it shaved down to fit the Beaulieu and it can also fit into the Eumig S938/940.
Paul Adsett found this one and turned me onto it.
Beautiful lens.
For scope I was using the Rectimascope but after many years I went back to the Kowa 8Z. I find the picture is just as sharp but it seems to let in more light so the picture is brighter to my eyes.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 14, 2015, 07:19 AM:

Thanks for all that detail Alan. I have never seen the Kodak lens but would love to one day given its rave reviews by Paul and yourself.

How much throw do you need to fill a 10ft diagonal screen? I am guessing it is somewhere between 30-40ft judging by my Schneider lens set at around that distance from the gate?

I suppose if it is that kind of range, then brightness would drop off considerably also?

How would you rate a less than perfect F1.0 Elmo lens vs the Schneider Alan? I had one once and was very impressed with it but it so very long ago now, I really wouldn't know how they fair side by side from memory alone.

I really must push myself to obtain the scope bracket from FFR for my Kowa lens as I would like to see if there was any significant difference in brightness and sharpness between the Proskar and Kowa anamorphics.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 14, 2015, 10:14 AM:

Andrew, because the Ektar is a prime ( fixed focal length lens, it has very few optical surfaces in it compared with a complex zoom lens. So there is much less light loss and less light scatter. The result is that the lens is very bright indeed, and less light scatter results in amazing contrast and sharpness from this lens. Its too bad that more S8 projectors did not come with high quality prime lenses.
When I first came across this lens on a rented Kodak M100, the picture quality just blew me away. I susequently purchased that old beat up M100 just to get this lens. When I had the lens machined down to fit my Eumig 938 it literally transformed the PQ of that projector.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 14, 2015, 10:48 AM:

Let me know Paul if you ever see another lens or beat up M100. I would love to try out this lens one day. [Smile]

I have seen the picture from your 938 on the BFCC video and the image quality and brightness was exceptional from your machine Paul.

Btw, hope the mag head project is all on track for you.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 14, 2015, 11:54 AM:

The mag head is on its way from down under! [Smile]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on April 14, 2015, 12:54 PM:

Alan, I knew that fix lenses were brighter than zoom ones at equal reference numbers (in other words, a 1.2 fix lens is brighter than a 1.2 zoom lens) but I didn't know if the general quality was better. From your post, it seems that could be something to investigate, even if fix lenses are very rare in super 8.

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on April 14, 2015, 01:24 PM:

I had the Kodak M100 with the Ektar 1.0 lens, but my problem was since it's a fixed lens you really need a far throw distance to get a decent (5-6') size picture on the screen. My maximum distance from projector to screen is only 20 feet [Frown]

To answer the question though, my favorite is the Elmo 1.0 lens. From the time I got it I haven't used my 1.1 again. My favorite scope lens is the Singer 16-D [Smile]

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on April 14, 2015, 05:34 PM:

I just missed an M100 lens on eBay recently. Dumb, dumb, dumb!

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 14, 2015, 07:19 PM:

The suprising thing about the Ektar F1.0 is that Kodak were never noted for the production of exceptional projector and camera lenses, in fact perhaps the opposite. But whoever did the optical design of the Ektar f1.0 must have done a great job, and clearly Kodak decided that they wanted a superb lens, and projector (the M100) to showcase their new Super 8 sound film system. They succeeded admirably on both counts as the M100 really was a great professional quality projector, actually a modified 16mm Pageant.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on April 15, 2015, 11:50 AM:

The Elmo f1.2 long throw lens, superb sharp optics, perfect partner for the GS xenon, takes some beating.

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on April 15, 2015, 12:34 PM:

Paul B.,
I had an Elmo 1.4, and I found out you need a really far distance to the screen to get a big image. Doug and I even tried it at CineSea a while back and the picture was just too small, even with about a 30-40 foot projector to screen distance. Is the 1.2 the same? I know that it's also a long throw lens.

Posted by John Hermes (Member # 1367) on April 15, 2015, 01:02 PM:

The Elmo long throw lenses were both 25-50mm focal length. The first one had an f/1.4 aperture and the later one an f/1.2.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on April 15, 2015, 01:48 PM:

For me the Sankyo Hi Pro 1.1 15-30 zoom and the Schneider Kreuscnach 1.1
11-30 zoom. also the BolexPaillard 1.3 zoom. Like others I have limited throw so I prefer zoom lenses.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on April 15, 2015, 02:42 PM:

Joe, From memory the Elmo f1.0 was just at the end of its limit from projector to screen distance, I swopped it out for the 1.2 long throw, which was as sharp and just as bright, but with about mid range on the zoom effect.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on April 16, 2015, 10:16 AM:

I found that a less than perfect 1.0 Elmo lens was not in focus completely across the frame. And it seemed that I had to constantly "ride" the focus as the lesser quality ones seemed to slip. I checked the machine and adjusted it and found the problem was the lens. Then I purchased a New Old Stock 1.0 in the box and it is perfect. Edge to edge sharpness and no need to refocus. Fantastic performer. I would love to try and mount the 1.0 on the Beaulieu but the lens would have to be modified or the projector and I want to keep both stock.
The 1.1 Schneider on the Beaulieu is also technically a perfect lens for that machine. Edge to edge sharpness and easy to focus. Also to my eyes almost as bright or maybe just as bright as the 1.0 Elmo lens.
When I use the Ektar lens it really is stunning. Super super sharp with shimmering grain. At a 20 ft throw the image is about 2 feet wide and 2 feet tall. Beautiful, beautiful...tiny image. [Frown]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 18, 2015, 09:38 AM:

I always fancied the 1.0 however, and as mentioned on here before, the 1.1 lens is a good bright lens and also has a good sharp image, the 1.0 lens has better light output but the 1.1 is defiantly sharper and easier to focus. This was also pointed in a few magazines in years gone by. My only problem with the Elmo Lens is the fact they seem to suffer with a little lens mould on the inner front. Mine has this problem & although the image is perfectly OK I feel I am missing out on its light output.
Can anyone recommend a good photography shop that is able to take these apart and clean them?

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on April 18, 2015, 12:06 PM:

Hi Tom, thought I read somewhere maybe here on the forum you can place the lens in direct sunlight for a time, and the sun uv rays destroy the fungus spores on the lens.

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