8mm Forum: Why are Derann releases so sort after?

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Posted by Daniel Tollick (Member # 4820) on July 11, 2015, 11:52 AM:

I am very new at this I have only been collecting fora few months and I see a lot of Derann releases go for high prices why?

Also what price would a die hard 8mm be worth?

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on July 11, 2015, 12:26 PM:

Around a fiver [Big Grin]

(just joking, i have reasons).
Derann released most of the more modern titles and most of them were full length and many in the scope format on low fade print and generally were very good quality.

Posted by Daniel Tollick (Member # 4820) on July 11, 2015, 01:35 PM:

Thanks top and I know why you are saying a fiver [Wink]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on July 12, 2015, 02:53 AM:

I've been. Rumbled [Big Grin]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 12, 2015, 02:55 AM:

Most low fade popular full length Derann titles that have been kept in excellent condition command a premium resale value that depending on title,can typically begin at £150 and peak at over £1000 nowadays for a mint print of Star Wars in original boxes with all leaders and tails in tact.

I would expect to see Die Hard in its original format of 5x 600ft spools, to sell for a minimum of £200 in very good condition at auction.

On another day or from a dealer, the same title could easily sell for £300-£400.

Stick in there,that's my advice to anyone interested. These don't come up too often nowadays in good condition. [Wink]

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on July 12, 2015, 03:15 AM:

Tom summed it up perfectly but just to add to that even old titles can get high prices. Recently on Ebay a Derann release of 'Red Hot Riding Hood', a tex avery cartoon from 1943, sold for £53. Now if this was a Walton or Techno release (just an example) would it have sold for as much even if the colours were good. I think most collectors/buyers see that the Derann box shown and reel indicate its on low fade and know the Derann quality is usually the best. I have so many Derann shorts that I can sometimes tell from the box design if its on low fade, and I think other collectors do and bid high for it.

I also notice that the 'Blue' look to many Derann titles does not put people off buying, particularly their Advert reels which can easily get £40-£50 on Ebay.

Graham S

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 12, 2015, 03:25 AM:

Derann epitomized Super 8mm Graham. Without them churning out top titled full length releases well into the late 90's, I doubt I for one, would have the interest in cine film that I have.

Terminator, Die Hard, Speed, Robocop, Silence Of The Lambs, 20 Something Disney's!
Highlander, Independence Day, Predator etc etc etc....where else other than Derann?

I love older films also including many classic musicals but without all the above mentioned,the spectrum would never have been complete for me.

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on July 12, 2015, 03:47 AM:

You don't need to tell me about Derann Andrew, but a new collector might wonder why their releases are sold for more.

Graham S

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 12, 2015, 04:07 AM:

Quite right Graham, quite right. [Wink]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on July 12, 2015, 04:19 AM:

I think a lot of it is simply that people like,(a term that annoys me a bit), "retro" items. Older things. Take cars as a good example, a good Escort Mk1 or original mini now commands ridiculous money, todays cars are comfy but are obsolete after just a few years, none of todays motor cars will be classics, they are simply not built to last.
Vinyl is making a big come back, you can hold, it feel it and collect it and look after it, be proud of a collection & in my opinion with a decent quality record player such as Lynn the quality was always better than CD anyway, no young people can collect there music because they download it, you pay your money and although you can play your music you don't a anything material for your money.
Super 8 is the opportunity to show films like they have done worldwide for over a hundred years, you can hunt down the titles you want and even the projector you show them on becomes an important part of your collection, maintaining and cleaning etc, now I think people want this, we see younger people on here occasionally asking advice on which projector to buy. Modern stuff is good and cheap even easier but the whole showman thing and collectable has disappeared. Humans like to collect and store, its in our nature. [Wink]

That's what I think anyway, by the way Die Hards still only worth a fiver [Big Grin]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 12, 2015, 04:23 AM:

Well someone already believes it is worth 32 times more Tom! Ha ha [Wink]

Posted by Daniel Tollick (Member # 4820) on July 12, 2015, 05:07 AM:

Th and you all for the information. Tom sorry I will have to throw my hat in the ring [Wink]

soon. Also does anyone if a website that has full specification details for the releases? And what titles they released.

I currently have two the texas chainsaw massacre and reel one from the mummy hammer film.

Daniel

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 12, 2015, 05:49 AM:

Daniel, although Derann stopped (sadly !) its activities some years ago, there is still one of their catalogues on the net http://derannlists.co.uk/derann/super8mm.php .

Posted by Daniel Tollick (Member # 4820) on July 12, 2015, 06:31 AM:

Thank you! Now I am concerned about he die hard imam looking at it's only 4 spools .

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on July 12, 2015, 07:06 AM:

That's "Die Hard 2", where a group of terrorists hijack an airport (instead of a plane).

Posted by Daniel Tollick (Member # 4820) on July 12, 2015, 07:48 AM:

Ok so the listing must be for the second die hard and not the first [Frown]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 12, 2015, 10:22 AM:

The film for sale Daniel is the original. It has just been respooled so they will be very very full!

The seller has had it on 2x 1200ft reels before now which it just about fits on, then he has broke it back down as a 4x 600ft feature instead of how it was spooled originally.

It will still be the full complete feature but may have a splice or two extra.

[ July 12, 2015, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Daniel Tollick (Member # 4820) on July 12, 2015, 11:03 AM:

Thank you Andrew! I noticed the tape on the edge just like my exorcist that's on one spool full to the brim!

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on July 12, 2015, 08:41 PM:

Daniel, I think popularity is not inline with the quality.

Derann is discussed more because the number of titles they printed and quantity were more then any other companies. However if you have heard other companies such as Red Fox (USA), Kempski (Germany) they also printed best quality prints.

These two companies' releases will go high too. Red Fox printed many shorts too and they were rare now. Kempski what I knew only released F/L and several Tom & Jerrys.

However we've rarely seen them on Ebay because the qunatity was far less than Derann's

This is probably similar to why people talking more VW (Volkswagen) than Peugot in vintage car collecting hobby.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 13, 2015, 03:27 AM:

Red Fox and Kempski prints as Winbert points out are excellent low fade prints that are on parity with those supplied by Derann in the same era.

Let's not forget Derann purchased all the negatives from both of these companies when they ceased trading so many Kempski and Red Fox prints are actually Derann prints printed by Rank labs in Bucks.

Going back to Die Hard, it finished at £260 and I was sad to see it wasn't my good mate Tom who won it. I know this is a title he has wanted to own for many a moon.

As often happens on e bay, late comers bidding just within the last few minutes of the auction, take all.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 13, 2015, 03:28 AM:

Red Fox and Kempski prints as Winbert points out are excellent low fade prints that are on parity with those supplied by Derann in the same era.

Let's not forget Derann purchased all the negatives from both of these companies when they ceased trading so many Kempski and Red Fox prints are actually Derann prints printed by Rank labs in Bucks.

Going back to Die Hard, it finished at £260 and I was sad to see it wasn't my good mate Tom who won it. I know this is a title he has wanted to own for many a moon.

As often happens on e bay, late comers bidding just within the last few minutes of the auction, take all.

£260 IMHO, is still a good price in this era for a very good print of this film. They are becoming rarer now in good Nick!

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on July 13, 2015, 04:05 AM:

As they said on a recent antiques programme, its very much a case what someone is willing to pay rather than what its worth.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 13, 2015, 04:31 AM:

Yes Lee, one of the same thing.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on July 13, 2015, 06:28 AM:

Also Derek always went for and got the best quality elements to master from and would view check prints and sometimes get a new duplication negative made if it was not of good enough quality. He was a salesman that knew it was cheaper in the long run to keep customers than find new ones, so he treated them well and sold a good product, if the quality was lower than normal he would say so before selling.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on July 13, 2015, 06:35 AM:

Watta bummer [Frown]

I'm being punished for not taking the copy that was offered to me. [Frown]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on July 13, 2015, 07:07 AM:

Daniel,
Unfortunately (for new collectors) Derann going out of business in 2011 caused a sharp rise in prices paid for many of their releases. As all their negatives were destroyed, everyone knew that no more prints of any releases would be produced, which was no doubt a key factor, although the lack of a UK lab had already prevented them printing for at least two years.
Note that although there are lots of excellent Derann prints in circulation, Super 8 is a challenging medium in terms of achieving optimum quality control in terms of every aspect of picture/sound, and negatives could pick up wear, so there's no guarantee that an excellent condition feature will mean that every reel is of the same quality as the best that were produced. Collectors vary greatly in terms of how tolerant they are - e.g. some will find the bluish tint that was often seen seriously annoying, while others might think it's no problem. With a release such as the Hammer 'Dracula' you might be happy with a bluish one, but ones with superb colour are out there too!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 13, 2015, 09:36 AM:

It just wasn't quite enough I'm afraid Tom!

I don't know how much the other print was offered to you at, but on the open market, in good condition, I would have expected to have paid up to around £300 now for one of these if it was in its original boxes and format.

This is one of the ones that definitely has the bluish tones to it, but to me, so long as the colour is vibrant and the stripes are strong enough to be recorded on, then those aspects are the main considerations to me with all of these sought after prints.

My own copy has allowed me to make a wonderful stereo recording from digital source on it and it makes it a far more enjoyable watch than it originally was as the recording was quite low and contained a lot of hiss when the volume was raised to enable the dialogue to be loud and clear.

[ July 13, 2015, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Daniel Tollick (Member # 4820) on July 13, 2015, 11:22 AM:

Well I was in for die hard upto 180 quid but I also had another film in mind and stopped now that film might not be able to be in my hands I wish I went higher [Frown]

I have a UFA German copy of the exorcist and it one of the best quality I own. Well I will just need to keep an eye on ebay.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 13, 2015, 11:24 AM:

Keep searching Daniel, they do come up from time to time.

Just make certain you know of the condition before you buy and always ask for screenshots.

Posted by Daniel Tollick (Member # 4820) on July 13, 2015, 11:29 AM:

Yeah I am looking at north by northwest at the moment.

Daniel

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 13, 2015, 01:03 PM:

Derann Films were the cream of the crop and especially, since about 1982, they be can be nearly guaranteed to be on either LPP or AGFA film stock, (I'm sure that someone will correct me on that if I'm wrong), which means that not only do you have great quality, but long lasting quality.

Derann, with a handful of other companies, proved that you could get 16MM quality, on super 8 film. This is especially true of the Derann/Disney prints!

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