8mm Forum: Rewinding by hand while still on the projector

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Posted by Jason Schmidt (Member # 4526) on February 03, 2016, 11:57 AM:

If my projector has just finished a reel and has all of the film on the take up, does it do any damage to internal components if I rewind the whole thing by hand (while still on the projector) back to the front reel? In other words I'm not engaging the rewind at all, I'm just using my own strength to turn the front reel to rewind, if that makes sense.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 03, 2016, 12:36 PM:

I don't see any avantage to do so. You may damage your projector using it a way it was not designed for. The belts inside the arms arm will probably make some parts turn without and make an unwanted pressure on the motor. The best way in my opinion is to use separate rewinders.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 03, 2016, 12:36 PM:

If you think about it, everybody does this a little bit: just the first foot or so until you are secure to the supply reel, so I'm not too worried about your projector.

-now, concerning Carpal Tunnel Syndrome...

[Wink]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 03, 2016, 12:40 PM:

Interesting to have two different opinions about the same subject [Smile]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 03, 2016, 12:42 PM:

Nothing wrong with that!

That's why it's a discussion forum!

A lot of folks favor using a pair of rewinds: take the projector out of the rewinding business entirely!

I've manually rewound a couple of problem reels over the years (without rewinds). More fun than going to the dentist, perhaps less than getting a haircut!

Posted by Jason Schmidt (Member # 4526) on February 03, 2016, 12:48 PM:

That is my concern Dominique. Perhaps I'll have to see if I can build myself a rewinder. I can't see paying what they go for on eBay for what is basically two film stands/mounts and a hand crank.

Does anyone regularly rewind film by hand while still on the machine?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 03, 2016, 12:59 PM:

If you could find a dead editor/viewer, trash the screen and just use the cranks, arms and spindles....

The trick would be to mount the spindles high enough off the table to clear the flanges on bigger reels. The cheapies are only intended for 400 feet, and my nicer editor goes no higher than 600 feet.

It would be good to look for an early vintage Dual-8 editor. The later ones were kind of plasticky and the gearing might not tolerant too many 1200 foot rewinds. Metal gearing is a definite plus.

I'm curious why you want to rewind this way.

Posted by Jason Schmidt (Member # 4526) on February 03, 2016, 01:11 PM:

The main reason I would be doing it is that way I can start the next reel immediately by just having two takeups, so while reel 1 is being rewound reel 2 is already playing and spooling onto my second take up reel. By the time reel 2 is finished the first take up will be empty again.

I suppose I could do something similar by using the first (now empty) reel as the take up for the second reel, but that gets trickier if the reels are different sizes.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 03, 2016, 01:12 PM:

The best editors can accept 1200ft reels Steve. Like the Goko RM8008 for example.

I wouldn't think there was much to be gained by trying to rewind a film by hand on a projector personally.

For a start, it would be really difficult to do. You don't have any geared handles like you do with an editor, so there is nothing to grip except the side arms of the reel.

Then using that method, the reel will wobble excessively from side to side from the eccentric force applied by your hand.

Rewind arms or a decent editor is definitely the way forward...
or would that be reverse!
[Big Grin]

Posted by Jason Schmidt (Member # 4526) on February 03, 2016, 01:15 PM:

Couldn't a pencil be stuck through the holes that most reels have in the core to use for turning?

I do have a Baia editor, though it is still in working condition so don't really want to dismantle it. Maybe I should take a closer look at it tonight to see if I could use it for this purpose.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 03, 2016, 01:19 PM:

Jason, I have to confess I don't understand what you mean. You can only put one spool at a time on an arm so you cannot rewind while you're projecting the way I understand what you want to do. Whatever, if your purpose is to have as short as possible breaks during your projections, there is a far easier way. When your first spool is projected, move the empty spool from the feeding arm to the take up one, and do the same until all your spools are projected. Then at the end, rewind your films when the projection is finished.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 03, 2016, 01:23 PM:

Yep, i've used the method Dominique describes here for features.

Just do all of the rewinding at the end of your screening session.
It always help to have one or two spares of the maximum take up reel size your machine can take, this way you have all options covered no matter what your work involves on any given day.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 03, 2016, 01:38 PM:

Yet, Andrew, I'm not looking to have Jason bust up a premium editor, just some cheapy on E-bay for 10 bucks or so.

-by the time you go for the Goko, you may as well buy the rewinds!

Jason,

The ultimate answer to your question is running two projectors alternately. It's what they did at the cinemas until platters came about.

Right now I'm running three! (Two for changeovers, one for 'scope...)

The first time I need to do a 'scope changeover, I'm dead in the water!

("FOUR! I need FOUR Projectors! NO... FIVE!!!!...)

Posted by Jason Schmidt (Member # 4526) on February 03, 2016, 01:42 PM:

Thanks for the advice.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 03, 2016, 01:53 PM:

No Steve, you can use the editor as perfectly good rewind arms with a high torque good gear ratio advantage when rewinding by hand, especially bigger reels. You can even let the motor slowly rewind by swapping the reels over if prefered.

There is no need to tear up the editor into pieces, it just serves as a dual purpose tool.

If you are to invest in some good rewind arms, this may well be another option for to consider in the long run. you only need buy once with something like this.

What's a changeover btw? [Big Grin]

(just a bit of fun banter Steve!)

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 03, 2016, 02:05 PM:

That would be high speed, low torque, right?

-Jason wanted to build a pair of rewinds, cheap.

I suggested a source of parts, also cheap.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 03, 2016, 02:08 PM:

High torque at the reel hub, low torque by the hand driving it due to the gearing i meant Steve sorry.

Yes, fair enough if just a quick cheap and easy solution is required by Jason.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on February 03, 2016, 03:08 PM:

Any projector that runs in reverse will have a slipping clutch on the arm so it shouldn't do any harm. I often have to do this to assist the projector when rewinding an 800ft spool - especially when applying film cleaner with a wrap-round cloth pad the clutch gives up and it stalls. I always do it at the centre hub of the spool as it is only an assist.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 03, 2016, 04:00 PM:

Brian, I have to say I don't know of a single projector where using a cleaning cloth on rewind WONT prematurely wear the friction linings on the spindle clutches.

That's quite besides the extra load being placed onto the main motor before the clutches go into overload.

I would never recommend cleaning films by using a projector, certainly not an 8mm one anyhow.

Posted by Scott Gabriel (Member # 5208) on February 04, 2016, 08:02 AM:

I manually rewind on my Bolex M8. There's a handle for it right there. Designed for it.

For cleaning on rewinds, I picked up a cheapo Mansfield editor and used the arms on a plank of wood. Works OK.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 04, 2016, 09:10 AM:

quote:
For cleaning on rewinds, I picked up a cheapo Mansfield editor and used the arms on a plank of wood. Works OK.

THIS is what I'm saying!

Scott? Do you know there are regular Super-8 shows out in Provincetown?

Super-8 on Cape Cod

Brad Moore is a member here too.

I'm supposed to be some kind of...scientist so I'm always up for an experiment. (...within reason of course!)

Last night I ran a 200 footer on one machine and an 800 footer on another. With the selector "off", both machines had both arms freewheeling and I could twirl the reels manually all I wanted.

On the 200 footer I manually rewound about three feet and gave up. It wasn't so much exertion as attention span.

The 800 footer? Forget it! I had to get to WORK this morning!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 04, 2016, 09:38 AM:

Ok sorry, I don't know of any non vintage super 8mm machine that comes with hand rewinding facilities, therefore they are all machines that should not be used to clean films with upon rewinding.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 11, 2016, 07:06 PM:

Here is how it ought to be done,everytime!

No projectors were at any point harmed or abused in the making of this movie! [Wink]

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