8mm Forum: EFR Bulb Won't Fit in Elmo ST1200HD

This is topic EFR Bulb Won't Fit in Elmo ST1200HD in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on February 26, 2016, 06:37 PM:

The bulb that originally came with my ST1200 projector finally went out today. No problem...I have another EFR Bulb from another projector. When I tried inserting the bulb it was too long and would not fit into the lamp holder. Are there different sizes for this lamp? Has anyone else had this issue?

The original EFR lamp was an Elmo Brand. You can see it is shorter than then other bulb (Platinum Brand).

This is what the holder and socket looks like. It will not bend wide enough to get the longer bulb in [Frown]

Do any of you ST1200 owners have this same holder/socket configuration? What bulb are you ordering?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 26, 2016, 06:49 PM:

That's very strange:

That code EFR is a whole set of specifications and one EFR should be the same as any other, no matter who made it or where.

I wonder if your new lamp is mismarked.

I've had EFRs from at least three different manufacturers in my ST-1200 and never had this problem.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on February 26, 2016, 07:29 PM:

Steve...Does your 1200 have this cage-like lamp holder? I measured each bulb and the overall length is approximately the same...about 1.70in. However, the Elmo bulb has longer pins and a shorter base. It fits into the holder easily...where the longer base bulb jams against the socket.

[ February 26, 2016, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on February 26, 2016, 09:59 PM:

It seems your Platinum bulb is not designed for a projector, From the above picture I cannot see it has a small piece to tight the bulb to the lamp holder as opposed to the Elmo's as I have given a mark below.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on February 26, 2016, 10:40 PM:

The Platinum bulb came from my Sankyo 800 projector. I've seen projector bulbs that don't have the nib on them and they seem to work fine.

I just ordered a bulb off Ebay. It looks like it has a shorter base and Winbert it does have the nib on it. However, I'd like to find a vendor that carries this model bulb. If anyone has this type of lamp cage on their ST1200... where do you buy your bulbs?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 26, 2016, 10:44 PM:

That locating tab is an interesting thing. It actually isn't in the EFP or EFR spec, and some brands of lamps have it and some don't, and I've even seen the same brand (Ushio) have it or not on the same lamps bought at different times.

-yet I've seen projectors (ST-800 in particular) that need it to be there or the lamp slips out of position and the picture gets dim. When I don't have it I usually put a tyrap in there to hold it in place

Janice, my ST-1200 was exactly like yours until fairly recently. I retrofit it with a different socket to improve contact with the lamp pins.

That Awful Elmo Lamp Socket

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on February 26, 2016, 11:06 PM:

Your modification to the socket Steve explains why you haven't had any problems with different bulb sizes. BTW...do you have any pictures you can post of your conversion. I may have to look into modifying mine...but for now I just need a supplier for the shorter bulb type.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 27, 2016, 12:00 AM:

You would get much greater success with contact and universal fit Janice by changing out this type of lamp holder for a Bender & Wirth type of correct rating. The connections on these original ones can become very "sloppy" indeed and lead to much in the way of arcing as they age.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 27, 2016, 03:00 AM:

Hi Janice

All the early ST1200M models had this lamp holder for the 150w EFR.

The EFP 100w used in the ST180 and ST600 are as below.

All the 100watt and 150watt lamps that I use have a locating lug on the lamp...hope this is of some help.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on February 27, 2016, 09:55 AM:

I appreciate all the history and conversion suggestions, but Graham....What I'm asking is what is the brand of the EFR bulb you are using in the last picture you posted? That is the same holder that I have on my ST1200 (matches picture I posted). There are dozens of brands of EFR bulbs available and obviously they all won't work in this particular un-modified lamp housing. Other than Elmo...Which company makes one that will work?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 27, 2016, 10:45 AM:

'Morning Janice!

I'm looking at an Osram EFR right now and the distance between the rim of the reflector and the edge of the neck where the pins come out is 32-33mm. If one of the lamps you have that fits is the same size, then Osram is a good brand for you.

(It's got the reputation...)

My socket retrofit is different from Paul Adsett's. My socket is the same depth as the original one and sits entirely inside the cage (which presses on it). If I had an over-dimension lamp I'd have the same trouble you are having.

If you do the retrofit you need a premium quality socket. The first time I tried I used a cheapy and one of the contacts overheated and took a lamp's pin along with it.

Posted by Thomas Smith (Member # 1889) on February 27, 2016, 12:09 PM:

Hello Janice
I have a 1200hd and the same style lamp holder
Never had any problems with bulbs but I only use osram
Purchased the projector in the late 1970s

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 27, 2016, 12:16 PM:

Hi Janice

Steve is right about the Osram lamps they are very good. I have used over the years as in the above picture, until they are all used up are "Sylvania" in the ST1200 etc, never had a problem with those lamps fitting, however the Osram would be the way to go.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on February 27, 2016, 02:10 PM:

The Osram catelog has one 50hr EFR bulb listed in their catalog. It's the Product #54210 (EFR 64534 HLX).

Looks like Bulb America has it. I'm going to order it and hopefully it will fit. I'll let you know.

[ March 01, 2016, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 27, 2016, 02:19 PM:

The Osram I was talking about before has "EFR 64534 HLX XENOPHOT" stamped on the glass, so it sounds like you have the real deal!

-price is good too!

I'm happy to use bulbs like this: they are used in a lot of modern equipment so they aren't a "specialty" or "vintage" item.

-that's a good thing in a consumable!

I walked up to an electrician's cart at work about a year ago and saw what looked like a projection lamp on top of it. I took a look: It was stamped "EFR". -yet I doubt anybody else in my department is projecting much Super-8 these days!

I was GOOD:

-I put it back where I found it!

[ February 27, 2016, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Steve Klare ]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on February 27, 2016, 02:25 PM:

Thank you Steve for the confirmation on the part number. That's all I needed. If it fits in your projector...It should fit in mine [Smile]

...and Steve...How about posting a thread on your conversion with a couple of pictures. It would be very helpful.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 27, 2016, 02:59 PM:

I don't know, Janice: it's not one of my most impressive exploits! (Really just my version of what Paul Adsett did first at any rate!)

-but I'll be glad to post a pic when I take the machine back out again.

I had to put everything away today: Mom's 85th Birthday celebration is tomorrow and pursuant to the peace accords in effect here the theater needs to go on hiatus until our guests head home.

(Won't take long to re-establish itself. -never does!)

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 27, 2016, 03:51 PM:

Happy special Birthday Mrs Klare in advance!

Janice, if you stick to the Osram lamp you and Steve were speaking of, you should notice a minimum of 10% extra brightness over all other manufacturers of these lamps due to the exclusive use of Xenon gas inside the capsule for this type of lamp.
I've always found them to be the very best example of these particular lamps.

[ February 27, 2016, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on February 27, 2016, 05:20 PM:

A very happy birthday to your Mom also Steve.

...and don't ever feel your work isn't impressive enough to show. It works doesn't it?...and that's what counts. I'm not looking to be impressed...just for another alternative solution. There's always more than one way to solve an issue and the best solutions come from knowledge gained from multiple input. I'll look forward to seeing what you have done. [Smile]

[ February 28, 2016, 01:27 AM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 01, 2016, 01:07 AM:

Due to a failure of the pins my only spare Sylvania lamp, I went out and bought a new Osram. However the Xenophot I landed up with has a different number, than the one you are buying, its a Osram 64634 HLX EFR 15v 150w. Length 42mm, Dia 51mm. It fits the ST1200 fine and the electrical socket. It looks same as the one removed except that the lamp does not have that little lug on it'

It would be interesting to know what the difference might be between both those Osram EFR lamps.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 01, 2016, 02:52 AM:

Yours will be newer stock Graham. They no longer have the lug incorporated into the new stock Osram reflectors.

Posted by Joe Balitzki (Member # 438) on March 01, 2016, 06:25 AM:

Since Janice is our resident Bond Girl, I am not surprised that she has found a solution to the problem [Smile]

I have purchased Osram lamps because of the stated extra brightness. The extra increase in brightness is slight but every little bit helps.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 01, 2016, 01:18 PM:

10% minimum over any other.

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on March 01, 2016, 05:13 PM:

@Janice,

I have what looks to be the exact same lamp holder as yours.
I get my bulbs from this chap, and they are awesome-
http://www.rexim.com/pages/medical/lamps/RM-107.html

-best part is they are dirt cheap but last long. I bought 3 and am still on #1 so i cannot comment on length just yet.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on March 01, 2016, 07:31 PM:

Matthew...Good to have another alternative bulb. However...If the Osram is brighter and it fits...I choose it. Bulb America currently has the Osram for only $4.66.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 01, 2016, 07:33 PM:

There we go then once again ha ha ha.

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on March 01, 2016, 08:20 PM:

I think that is a good idea Janice, especially if you like it brighter. On my ST1200HD, I have never gone to the brighter setting because i find mine very bright as is, and when i turn on higher setting it is almost blinding to my eyes... I would like to try the Osram one day, but the way these bulbs are lasting, it may be years for me... [Smile]

Glad you found something!

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on March 02, 2016, 06:12 PM:

I received the Osram EFR bulb from Bulb America today. It's PERFECTAMUNDO!!! [Smile]

Fit like a glove... nice and bright [Smile]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 02, 2016, 07:43 PM:

You are more than welcome Janice!!

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 02, 2016, 08:08 PM:

I usually use the brighter setting because the bulbs are cheap and life is short.

-but I do think it makes life a little harder on the pins and socket contacts.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 02, 2016, 08:25 PM:

With a new or decent lampholder, you need fear not. I NEVER use my pj on low lamp setting, and since I've changed every lampholder i possess on every machine I own, I've never encountered a problem thus far.

If lampholder is good, so are your lamps!

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 02, 2016, 08:34 PM:

The problem you run into is since these are low voltage bulbs, you pull some serious current to get the power, so the pins are running at or close to the limit.

-you are right though: I replaced a cheap socket I fried in less than a year with an agency rated one and haven't had a bit of trouble since.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 02, 2016, 08:52 PM:

Way to go Steve! [Big Grin]

Bender & Wirth....accept nothing less!

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on March 02, 2016, 09:48 PM:

quote:
I usually use the brighter setting because the bulbs are cheap and life is short.

I just love Steve's outlook on life! [Smile]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 02, 2016, 10:02 PM:

-and on my birthday I'm finding that green "ECO" button on my dashboard and spending the day with it OFF!

Party!
Party!
Party!

(Not completely sure it's even connected to anything!)

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on March 02, 2016, 10:06 PM:

Wow Steve, I am in awe of your reckless behavior!
Time to project a print of Emmanuelle on the side of your neighbor's house! [Big Grin]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 03, 2016, 07:59 AM:

I'd like it better if instead of a green button that says "ECON", Honda had chosen a red button that says "SPORT".

-it can do the exact same thing, just when you push it I want the dashboard lighting to change to red and maybe automatically start "Ride of the Valkyries" on the stereo (Is this too German for a Japanese car? BMW, VW, Mercedes of course, but a Honda?!!)

-but then again if it really was set up like this I probably wouldn't have taken 3 years to push that button!

Maybe the ST-1200 can have a "sport mode" too!

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on March 05, 2016, 02:47 PM:

So nice to have my Elmo projecting again. Last night I watched a nice little digest I bought from Doug Warren.

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003485;p=190#004755

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 05, 2016, 06:57 PM:

I'm glad you finally saw the light, Janice! [Wink]

Here's a promise kept:

It's nothing much: I just took the old pincer socket out and put in a new slide-on one. The existing framework holds everything in place.

Bulb changes are a little bit more awkward, but should be worth it.

Posted by Roger Shunk (Member # 2836) on March 09, 2016, 07:07 PM:

Janice,
Just saw your post and I always purchased my lamps for my ST-1200HD from a company called www.replacementlightbulbs.com
They carry all the lamps for the ST-1200
I like the Donar brand and the Osram & Philips which they always have in stock.

I was also under the impression that you should get the lamp that has the nib or notch at the top of the rim so that it locks it in place and keeps the bulb from turning. Is this true?

Good luck!

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 10, 2016, 10:16 AM:

They are good,

I get my replacement sockets there too.

What's nice about them is there is actually a warm body there to discuss troubles you are having and help you make things right instead of just buying more of the wrong stuff and having the same problems.

I ask Replacement Light Bulbs to check stock to see if the bulbs have the lugs or not. It's kind of futile since I need the bulbs anyway and I can use them even without it.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 10, 2016, 11:29 AM:

Roger, I don't believe the lug was ever designed to stop it from turning, after all..how can it??

It was just used to aid the lamp to always be fitted in its correct orientation I believe.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 10, 2016, 11:58 AM:

I've seen cases where if it's not there the lamp can drift sideways just a few millimeters and one edge of the reflector actually dips into the round cutout in the mount.

-this means the lamp is now off axis and the light isn't aimed directly through the aperture.

Things suddenly dim a whole lot!

There is a notch in the lamp mount that the lug locks into and keeps this from happening. When it's not there I have to put in a Ty-Rap to hold it in place, but now I need to carry Ty-raps and wire cutters in case I need to change a lamp on the road.

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on April 23, 2018, 06:45 AM:

Just wanted to report on the Donar bulbs i bought back in march 2016 as per this thread.....I buy in pairs and my second one burned out last night.... so that is pretty good i think, 2 years. That is a bulb a year and i use it alot!
Regardless, I am trying the osrams these days and bought 2 osrams yesterday from bulbamerica as Janice. I am excited for 10% brighter views so we wait in anticipation!

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 23, 2018, 02:57 PM:

This is a modified lamp holder that was done for my 1200HD some time ago, this one is a modification to the original and works so well, the socket being easy to get to for any replacement in the future. [Wink]

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