8mm Forum: Baur T610 motor drive belt replacement.

This is topic Baur T610 motor drive belt replacement. in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on April 25, 2016, 06:21 AM:

Help!! The motor drive belt snapped last night whilst running a film. Where can I get a replacement and how do I fit it? Loking at the mechanism, there does not appear to be any way of putting it on the drive shaft pulley without removing the shaft! surely there must be s simpler way. Anyone got a service manual? Ken Finch. [Frown]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 25, 2016, 06:44 AM:

Ken,it's an issue to fit one on these. They are readily available from various sources including FFR or Edwin here. However...in almost every case, a full cam and claw set up will be required after doing so as you have to part remove the shutter shaft to fit the new belt.

This,9 times out of 10 disturbs the critical claw penetration on these due to the equally critical shaft endfloat set up that governs penetration depth on these.

The service manual also advises to it's own technicians. that each time the shutter shaft is disturbed the claw should be checked for depth of penetration and adjusted as required and a lubrication intervention also is an absolute necessity at this point.

A service manual won't particularly help you here. You need to look at the tutorial I posted out on this work on one of the forums, which included photographs each step of the way.

If adjustments prove necessary upon the shaft re seat after refitting the rear sleeve bearing back into its journal, you will need to part remove the transformer to access the claw adjustment cam mechanism and you will need two special spanners of slim width and jaw size to adjust the two slim lock nuts for the penetration and orbital cam mechanisms.

Given your geographical location Ken, you may want to consider this work in the hands of a specialist like Mr Parsons perhaps?

It can mean putting in quite a few hours to have everything set back to its optimum set up position.

It is also worthy of note here, that the original square belts cannot be obtained now. You will have to settle for a round profile belt now which still work well but obviously does not fit the profile of the vee belt pulley as well as the square profiled original drive belts did.

[ April 25, 2016, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on April 25, 2016, 12:42 PM:

Recently the Baur was recommended to a member that was looking for a good projector. I hope he reads this post. I would never consider a projector that requires that sort of disassembly to replace a drive belt. Terrible design.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 25, 2016, 02:13 PM:

It is a service item that was meant originally, to only be carried out at recognized service centres by their own engineers and trained professional technicians.

It is often the German way that they do not expect the owners of their equipment to carry out any kind of service to their equipment except to change a lamp and routine cleaning.

If you look at many of the German cars of today, even a headlamp bulb replacement, has to be carried out by them because of the complexity of the assembly and specialized tooling required.
The same can be said for a routine service on BMW's and similar, where the car won't even start if you let the service lapse!

Just like BMW and Mercedes motor cars, we may not like some of the obstacles they place in our path, but the Germans certainly know a thing or two regarding fine engineering!

The Bauer is typical of a German design here Barry. It is complex and quirky but offers fine, and more importantly, refined performance levels.

The T610 is a fine machine indeed, and one that i would gladly recommend to anyone! [Wink]

If you want a projector you can change the main shutter drive belt in under 30 seconds without even removing a cover....
buy a Beaulieu! [Wink]

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on April 25, 2016, 04:49 PM:

I understand everything you are saying, and don't disagree with any of it. My point is that if someone is looking for a projector, I would not recommend one that is designd to be serviced only by a trained technician. Particularly for an item such as a drive belt which will fail in time. Newer Bell & Howell 16mm projectors have a problem with cracking worm gears. Replacement is not something the casual user can do. For that reason, those of us in the 16mm forums never recommend them, even though they are otherwise fine projectors.

[ April 25, 2016, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Barry Fritz ]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 25, 2016, 05:21 PM:

It's a trade off here Barry.

The Bauer offers the quietest and smoothest operating system of any Super 8mm projector that I've ever witnessed.
It does this by using a unique design that also requires special silicone lubricants to keep it running as silently as it does.

As projector users in this day and age, the vast majority of us left in the hobby have some electro / mechanical knowledge and skills or else otherwise, a very good technician who we entrust with our machines.

If the machine was only an average performer in use, I'd agree and say the efforts required to keep these running like new would not be worth it.

I doubt there is any experienced user of these out there, who does not feel that these are well worth the extra efforts required to keep them running well, once they have become accustomed to watching their film collections on one of these in the home environment.

Also bear in mind, that if this is a possible issue here to it's end users, and they have to entrust this work here to a specialist, then it is of course possible to slip two replacement belts onto the shaft assembly when carrying out the repair.
Then simply tie one of the belts out of the way to other parts of the frame assembly so next time this is necessary, it is a very simple and quick task to fit the next one.

Personally, for me, part of the challenge and joy of owning one of these, is continually finding even lower running levels of noise that can be achieved on these by finding the peak and exact sweet position of the shafts end float and penetration depth of it's claw.

Let's also not forget here also, that if you fit a decent correct belt, it is many years of regular use before you will ever need fit another.
From the two machines I have, one has its original belt and the other I have changed once only.

I have however, totally removed the shaft on many other occasions for various other reasons, and therefore become very experienced in knowing the set up on these inside and out by now.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 25, 2016, 05:26 PM:

[Big Grin]

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on April 26, 2016, 07:15 AM:

Many thanks for your advice Andrew. I think I will have a chat with Bill Parsons about it. Certainly putting on 2 belts is an excellent idea. Saves so much hassle. Would still be interested to see your tutorial though. Which forum is it on? I certainly agree with what you say about the German engineering. Thanks again for the advice, Ken Finch.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 26, 2016, 03:51 PM:

Thank you Ken.

If you like, I will forward the document for correct shaft removal procedure on these over to you.

Please just PM me your e mail, and I will send it to you.
It's on either this or another forum somewhere, but even I couldn't find it just now easily when I looked! [Wink]

[ April 26, 2016, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 26, 2016, 03:55 PM:

Hi Andy, I did bid on one of these the other week, just missed the dam thing by a squeak thanks to being in work. It looked a good un to. [Wink]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 26, 2016, 04:00 PM:

There's plenty about Tom. Stick with it, and you're certain to land a gud en' if you stick in there mate! [Smile]

Not necessarily in the UK btw, as you've probably already concluded by now I'm certain.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 26, 2016, 04:10 PM:

Yes thats for sure, this one was in Italy, at the prices i'm seeing,(although advertised as 100% working), at least there's room for a little manoeuvring on repairs. [Wink]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 26, 2016, 04:18 PM:

We will fix it...we will mend it!! [Big Grin]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 26, 2016, 11:53 PM:

Just in addition here to Ken...

I don't wish to scaremonger here. You may well be in a position to carefully lift the rear of the shaft to a minimal amount and slip a belt quickly over the shaft before lowering the back bearing back into place again with minimum disturbance to the claw and nylon cam arrangement.

However, in my experiences of doing this work, it never sounds like the same machine you previously had without doing some kind of fine tuning to the claw mechanism after doing so.

Also, this is the recommended installation advice given out to their own service team for these by the manufacturer and of course, the all important lubrication to the felt pad using silicone oil and special grease for the cam itself.

If it were my machine, I'd use the opportunity to remove the shaft altogether to check such items as shaft journals and spherical sleeve bearings for wear,before lubricating them again.
Clean and remove the old aging grease from the cam itself, inspect and clean both claw springs and claw teeth etc etc.

[ April 27, 2016, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on April 29, 2016, 09:11 AM:

Hi Andrew, I sent you a PM last night. I will have a close look at your instructions and my machine before deciding to do do the job myself or contact Bill Parsons. Best wishes Ken Finch.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 29, 2016, 11:04 AM:

Ken I'm will send it to a.s.a.p. thanks.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on April 30, 2016, 04:07 PM:

There is actually a long tutorial video for this particular subject on YouTube. I haven't had the need to watch it yet, but there are several videos there. I will try to post a link later, but a simple search should bring it up.

James.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 30, 2016, 04:10 PM:

Nice one James!

I've never seen that one.
A link to it would be brilliant here if you can find it thanks James.
[Smile]

0.1mm is a critical setting for the shaft end float on these.
I hope that is made crystal here in the video?

I look forward to viewing it / them!

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on May 03, 2016, 08:10 AM:

Here is one. There are others too. I'm pretty sure there was one on replacing the drive belt. I will try to locate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cwFnltBYZ8

James

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 03, 2016, 11:39 AM:

Ah yes,a fairly recent addition on you tube in the grand scheme of these things there by Edwin and his team.

Slightly different way of going about this work than my own methods in places, but generally the same procedures to achieve the exact same result.
Personally, I like to have the shaft fully secured before refitting the motor back into position.
On this video here, the shaft and motor are able to freely move while the belt is placed onto the pulleys on the shutter shaft and motor.

Also a feeler gauge is essential when setting the shaft end float again.

I've also found that hx hd unbrako grub screws make a better replacement for the end float collar as the straight bladed grub screws used originally very quickly round and become difficult then to remove at times.
The originals are made from relatively soft metal I've found.

The springs are a little tricky to refit and care should always be taken not to distort them in any way or their looped ends to ensure they stay well secured at all times.

Ken I will send your documents over to you this evening.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 03, 2016, 04:22 PM:

Now sent over to you Ken.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 22, 2016, 08:22 AM:

Ken, please can you PM me your address again. I have your documents printed out ready to post, but somehow cannot find the mail that contained your address.

I will get the hard copy of the documents sent out tomorrow for you if you can oblige me sometime today here with this one thanks.

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on May 22, 2016, 03:05 PM:

Hi Andrew. I have sent you a PM. Sorry about the delay. Have had a lot of "just jobs" to do, particularly in the garden now it has dried out a bit! Kan Finch.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 22, 2016, 03:17 PM:

Thanks Ken, that's brilliant news then. It means I can post everything out in one go now thanks. [Smile]

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