8mm Forum: Nutty ebay projector prices.

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Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on May 31, 2016, 04:46 PM:

Is it just me but these days there seem to be so many run of the mill, middle of the road super 8 sound projectors on ebay, you only really want to be paying about £50 or so for.

Theres loads about still so no rarity.

Prices over £100 and up to the £200 odd mark for quite average ones.

Best Mark.

PS they do seem to be hanging around though.

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on May 31, 2016, 04:58 PM:

They are posted by sellers who have no idea what they are worth. Same with 8mm films. They think they have found a gold mine so they post it with a high price and find out it doesn't sell. That is unless a sucker comes along!

PatD

Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on May 31, 2016, 06:12 PM:

It is the same with silent projectors. Many are offered as working but untested with film at silly prices. Of 5 belt-driven ones that I've bought off eBay, 3 have needed belts. Traders must be looking at the prices bid for ones in excellent condition and thinking that they can ask something similar for untested gear.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on May 31, 2016, 06:14 PM:

i think the loonyest of them all is the nut cases listing 400ft films with start prices in excess of £100 or more. then it gets even funnier when they say untested but looks in mint condition.
Ebay needs to go back to basics and re introduce a listing fee based on the start price with a lower cost after selling. its currently making me think twice about continuing as many people are pointing out the site is becoming a rip off.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 31, 2016, 06:33 PM:

E Bay needs to understand what goods are being sold on their website, full stop Tom!

They are more than happy to continue to take their commision from any old junk being sold, but have absolutely no idea of the nature of the goods being sold under their cloak, both from the perspective of the Buyer and the Seller when it comes to our hobby here !!

Try calling them and you will see for yourself. It's like explaining to a toddler what our dissatisfaction is with any film purchased!!

Osi highlights one aspect of the problem here today from a sellers perspective, but equally from a buyers perspective, how on earth can you form an educated reasonable judgement while bidding on a desireable title by title and title alone, whilever the seller is allowed to say they basically know nothing of it's condition!

"well the box is immaculate so I suspect the film is in great condition though I have no means to view it"

Worse still, e bay accept this lame excuse and continue to allow these Chancing B&%tards to sell!!

It's not the seller here who is at fault, after all he or she are just chancing their arm...it's e bay themselves!!

It's time regulators got a grip..simple as,... for both sides of the argument. [Mad]

You either know about what is being sold under your mantle, or you don't. If you do, then fine, operate as a dealer would by sale or return policy. If not, tighten your grip and stop accepting ridiculous and often worthless goods being offered for sale...period!

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on June 01, 2016, 03:09 AM:

It is a free trade environment on Ebay though chaps so anyone can list anything for any price - it is simply up to the buyers to say to themselves 'Too High = Don't Buy'

The thought of price controls is abhorrent to me - I bet no one here would complain if they found an under priced bargain on Ebay. Confession time for me - I bought two fully working Eiki EX4000p 16mm xenon projectors from Ebay UK for a Buy It Now price of £150 the pair a couple of years ago. The seller was happy with the money as the next stop would have been the local rubbish tip. Sold as 'untested and no knowledge if working or not' by the very honest seller. Why should we expect everyone to be an expert - remember any item is only worth what peoople are prepared to pay for it.

Silly prices are appearing even on the 8mm Forums these days as well - honestly paying two times or more of the original cost price for a Derann Super 8 feature is bonkers and we know it don't we?

Tom has the solution - stop the free Ebay listings, reinstate a charge for each item listed / relisted and the junk may well disappear, but price controls no thank you.

Kevin

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 01, 2016, 03:44 AM:

I agree with what Tom and Kevin are saying here regarding a listing fee and going back to how e bay was originally ran.
However, I still believe for goods that it is impossible to verify unless tested, there somehow has to be better protection for both buyer and seller to keep the crooks of this world well away.

A deterrent of some kind to avoid people having no protection from being ripped off is most definitely needed even if that is 3 strikes and you are out, for people selling not as described or vaguely described goods constantly, or for people "trialling" goods before returning them due to some illegitimate invented complaint.

Perhaps tighter restraints regarding a person's feedback score would also help.
No trading either way on used goods if your feedback score falls below 90% etc etc.

Just some kind of deterrent, that's all.

As it currently stands, I am hearing a buyer cannot be left negative feedback for any transaction they make and a seller can list any old claptrap for free???

This is far removed from how the site began its business and certainly takes the likelihood of receiving a fair and honest transaction in the future further from reach also.

Posted by Del Phillipson (Member # 513) on June 01, 2016, 03:51 AM:

Am I wrong in thinking these projectors should be pat tested before selling on ebay, especially as they more often come with a wired plug not moulded.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 01, 2016, 03:56 AM:

Another highly valid point there Del regarding used electrical goods!

It's no better than a car boot sale as things stand except due to the mass market of bargain hunters it attracts, things sell at Selfridges prices.

The only real winner, is e bay themselves and unscrupulous traders.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on June 01, 2016, 04:28 AM:

Ah yes the PAT testing scam - what a great way of making money that was / is - I had the misfortune of monitoring a PAT tester who visited our work premises and charged a fortune for putting dear little 'tested OK on' labels on the leads of all our office equipment. He was lost for words when I asked him what was to stop anyone removing the kettle-plug type leads he had so carefully attached the labels to and then instead connecting them to an untested piece of equipment.

In the UK the household electrical supply regulation requirements will ensure the circuit breaker / RCD pops long before anyone comes to harm - far better to spend money updating your home supply safety than placing hope in the validity of PAT test labelling. They are akin to the car MOT really - a piece of paper / label that says everything was alright on the day with no guarantee whatsoever it will be OK tomorrow

Kevin

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 01, 2016, 04:48 AM:

A professional PAT tester should know and understand all too well that both the equipment itself and the IEC mains cable, should be both tested and labelled individually.

If a different mains cable is then used that has no label or test certification attached with it, then this of course invalidates the appliance itself as being fit for purpose.

It's true to say that any electrical or mechanical components can fail at any given time but if something has only just been tested prior to offering it for sale, then the likelihood of failure should be slim.

If there is no substance in any of this testing, then industry used preventative maintenance techniques such as BAVA and C.I.L.s would be worthless.
This, of course, very much isn't the case. Hence the time,effort,resources and money invested by reputable companies into continuing to apply these and many many other tests and activities to predict the lifespan and worthiness of any electrical or mechanical component.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on June 01, 2016, 05:16 AM:

With respect Andrew in the manufacturing industry and any industrial machinery environment yes I agree the levels of testing and certification you refer to certainly do and rightly should exist. I had personal responsibility in a previous role for the BSI and ISO audits of our regional service department (big company at the time with 5000 plus employees) so I also do know what I am talking about.

However at the frontline home / office small appliance level(more relevant to this thread as I would include small guage cine projectors in this group) trust me the bodgers are everywhere sticking little labels on that frankly mean nothing - search on Google and you will find one or two day courses for a few hundred pounds that allegedly fully qualify someone to call at your home or workplace and certify equipment even if they had no prior electrical or electronic training qualifications.

Back on topic - do you really think that Ebay would insist on sellers PAT testing every electrical item before listing it on Ebay? Irons, hair straighteners, microwave ovens, old record players etc. the list goes on and on - it is better to have a safely modern circuit breaker and RCD protected home supply than hoping any used electrical item purchased will be safe to use upon receipt.

Kevin

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 01, 2016, 05:29 AM:

I agree with all your points raised there Kevin and of course I know only too well that you know exactly what you talking about and to an extremely knowledgeable level.

I just think anything that tightens up the ability to openly sell someone else's faulty junk or potentially hazardous equipment onto others, has to be a good thing.

Not everyone in society has a modern day consumer unit fitted even if all new builds now have to be fitted with RCDs and MCBs.

Remember Beko and their dreadful reputation not so long back for supplying appliances that after a short service life burst into flames! No doubt these were not homes that had a modern consumer unit fitted so standards do have to be regulated and maintained in my opinion.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 01, 2016, 03:07 PM:

I suppose as already said, if it's listed, weather you buy or not is entirely up to the bidders. Most of us know what we are looking at with cine films etc but anyone seeing it and thinking, "thats a good idea i'll get back into that stuff", could end up being very lucky or very sorry.
I just laugh at some of the start prices.

Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on June 01, 2016, 07:06 PM:

As Andrew says, not everybody in the UK has a modern consumer unit which will cut off the electrical supply in the event of a fault. We only had our unit with fuses using fuse wire replaced a couple of years ago. Apart from those, the only "protection" was the cartridge fuse in the plug. Of 5 projectors with plug-in mains leads bought off eBay, 2 had no leads supplied and the rest had 15 amp fuses fitted.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 01, 2016, 07:23 PM:

I think that should perhaps read 13 amp fuses Will, but I completely agree with you here.

It's surprising just how many UK homes do not have the modern day consumer units fitted to them like kevin describes above.

Scary! It really is, when introducing any vintage or sub standard modern day goods into those homes.

Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on June 02, 2016, 09:18 AM:

Whoops. Yes, that should have read 13 amp. I was probably thinking of the 3 amp fuses I replaced them with.

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