8mm Forum: Wanted: Lens Filter to Correct Red Shift

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Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on June 29, 2016, 05:15 PM:

Hi All,

I have a film(Columbia:Mysterious Island) that has shifted to red. Other than this issue the print is pretty good...good contrast and quality, and good sound.Looking for a better copy is always a possibility perhaps, but I was thinking that there may be a way to view this film and bring back some lost colour?

Has anyone had success using a filter? What kind? In Canada, we have Henry's everywhere and I would like to know what i should try to look for... Thanx in advance for any insight.

ps: This is for my elmo ST1200HD so if something fits perfectly....

Posted by David Fouracre (Member # 3883) on June 29, 2016, 05:24 PM:

Hi Mathew,

You need a cyan filter. These are graded in various "steps" 3,6 etc. and you will find the suitable grade is dependant on the degree of fade(magenta) on your print. Obtain from photo dealer in acetate or mylar sheet (typically 100mm square).
I would suggest you try a Cyan 3 to start and see how you get on.
All the best.

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on June 29, 2016, 05:28 PM:

Wonderful! Thanx for that info David!
I will indeed go out and try this and will look forward to seeing how it goes.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on June 29, 2016, 05:40 PM:

Hi Matthew...I bought a set of these filters off Ebay and they have worked well depending on how red your film is.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/16mm-film-ELMO-COLOR-CORRECTION-FILTER-fits-ELMO-16CL-PROJECTOR-LENS-not-scope-/201595145444?hash=item2ef001cce4

You can use the 3 filters individually or in combination...you'll have to experiment. The seller provides 3 filters that fit into a molded cap that fits over your lens. His listing is for 16mm...but just give him the circumference measurement of your 8mm lens and he'll make a custom cap for that lens. I had him do this for me.

I also bought some filters from Gerald Santana a while back. His blue filter worked very well also... however he is currently out of stock of the gels.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on June 29, 2016, 06:21 PM:

I'm glad to "hear" you "say" that Janice, I ordered a set of those ebay filters this afternoon.

I have a couple of features: nice sound, good sharpness, good movies too, just a touch too red to show to an audience.

-we shall see!

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on June 30, 2016, 04:24 AM:

I'll have to look for the ones that came with the Durst 35mm film enlarger I used for printing. I think there were 3 densities with that - the yellow and magenta were adjustable by sliding in before the reflective diffuser and not removable. They might work for me.

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on June 30, 2016, 09:00 AM:

Thanx for the link Janice! Those look great as well..

I am going to run into Henry's today to see what they have..I may pick up an acetate and try to make one myself first, and then graduate to a custom fit... I am thrilled to know some sort of 'fix' can be done to improve the film. Looking at the pics in your link really show what the filters can do.

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on July 14, 2016, 11:20 AM:

I was unsuccessful tracking this down locally at Henry's or others...so I am now going down Janice's suggested direction! I hope the ebay seller will make one to fit my elmo! I will update any news one i hear back from them!

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on July 14, 2016, 02:59 PM:

Mathew
You may find this Canadian site of interest.
https://www.vistek.ca/results/ProVideoLightingFilters/filters-lighting-gel%20sheet/Gelatin-Sheet.aspx

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on July 14, 2016, 03:49 PM:

Identifying the best blue gels for filters is a lengthy trial and error process. There are hundreds of different gels and colors. I figure the guy on Ebay has already gone thru this process and has made a workable selection for the majority of faded prints he has tested.

Posted by Michael Lattavo (Member # 4280) on July 14, 2016, 06:20 PM:

I've got those same filters Janice - love them!

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 17, 2016, 10:42 PM:

I got mine the other day. I'm pretty impressed!

Once you get past the expectation that this will take your red-faded print and make it instant Kodachrome, they do make a substantial improvement. This is compromise: better, never perfect.

Basically what I see happening here is it seems to turn red more into brown. What I liked is it did a pretty decent job correcting a classic red-print problem: Planet Earth in a red-faded film doesn't have blue skies: they are gray. Now, they are actually blue again: maybe not noon in the Caribbean, but at least a Winter afternoon in Canada kind of blue.

The colors are muted. In many a red faded print, the reds are spectacular...now, not so much. You lose some brightness on screen, but then again, a faded print is actually brighter than it really should be to begin with.

I have a fairly red print of "When the North Wind Blows". I ran it this weekend with the filters: picking and choosing. I reached the point where what was on screen looked pretty good. What is telling is when I took the filter off and saw what the print really looked like, I put it back right away!

Posted by George Seaton (Member # 5402) on July 18, 2016, 07:36 AM:

I've been very happy with my set, they have noticeably improved the colour of pink and fading prints. As an added bonus they also sharpen up 3D, I have the Universal 8 3D 400' digest of 'Creature From The Black Lagoon' and the Gill-man swims out of the screen in all his pin sharp glory again.

Posted by Douglas Warren (Member # 1047) on July 18, 2016, 07:49 AM:

I too have a set (for my Kodak Pageant 16 mm projector) and they're very good. I plan on getting more made for some of my other projectors ( Super-8 & 16 mm.)

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on July 18, 2016, 12:54 PM:

Rick contacted me last week and is making one for my elmo this week. I am gonna use it on my 1.1 elmo lens which measures 15cm circumference(1 3/4" diameter), which is 45mm.
I cannot wait to get these and try them out!

Posted by Douglas Warren (Member # 1047) on July 19, 2016, 04:14 AM:

Matthew, I think you'll be very pleased with your set. As Steve pointed out, once you use them on a film and them remove it, the difference really stands out!

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on July 26, 2016, 12:48 PM:

So exciting!
Just found out today Rick finished with the color correction filter set and it is on its way!!!

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on July 29, 2016, 01:14 PM:

My kit from Rick arrived today with the 3 cyan filter pieces.
I already tried it on the mysterious Island and the improvement was DRASTIC in my case!! The kids said 'Woah!' when i put it on and took it off, back and forth...you can really notice. I will fiddle with the right combo for whichever films need this.
I love this perfectly fitting lens cap.
Thanx for recommending this Janice!

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on July 29, 2016, 01:45 PM:

Fantastic Mathew! [Smile]

So glad to hear the filters are working for you. Any improvement in the color quality just extends the viewing life of our film collection...AND if the kids like it...well...that's all the endorsement you need [Smile]

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on July 29, 2016, 02:17 PM:

After reading the reviews here, I ordered a set from Rick too! I have three or four prints that have fading colors. Looking forward to screening them again now [Smile]

Posted by Douglas Warren (Member # 1047) on July 29, 2016, 02:40 PM:

Great news and glad that you're pleased with your set! I too got mine in the other day for my Eiki 16 mm projector. I ran a print last night (an episode of "The Rat Patrol" TV series) and it really does make a difference.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 29, 2016, 04:57 PM:

It won't return true colour of any film of course, but just as Douglas has pointed out quite correctly, if you have enough lamp power to make the projected image vibrant while beaming it through a series of filters, it does improve the overall colour balance of red projected film even if never likely to completely and realistically restore any film to its former glory.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 30, 2016, 01:37 PM:

I readed somwhere that xenon bulbs are a little bit blue and that it improves pink films, which I think hard to believe. Has anyone noticed that ?

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on July 30, 2016, 02:10 PM:

Yes, the brighter the bulb the better the filters work. I mainly use the filters on my 16mm projector. I was using a regular 250W HCL bulb on my Elmo 16CL with decent results. But, it wasn't until I replaced the bulb with a HCL-HL that I saw a significant improvement in color and brightness with the filters. The HL version cost a lot more...but the results are well worth it.

Dominique...I've never used Xenon bulb...but if the hue is blue/green then it seem logical that it would improve red tones.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 30, 2016, 02:25 PM:

yes, Janice. What would surprise me is that xenon bulbs are "blue". Wouldn't that affect the colours of the "normal" films ?

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on July 30, 2016, 04:11 PM:

Theoretically yes Dom. I use a 85B (orange filter) on my camcorder when capturing non-faded images from my MovieStuff Telecine Projector. It has an LED lamp that has a blue/green tint and the orange filter does a good job of neutralizing the colors. I guess it just depends on how severe the lamp changes the film color. It may not be significant enough to be noticed.

Posted by John Hermes (Member # 1367) on July 30, 2016, 04:55 PM:

I've had both Marc 300 and xenon projectors. They do not appreciably help red prints. They put out a bright 5500 degree Kelvin blue-white light which gives a vibrancy to unfaded colors, but really doesn't help red or pink prints very much. I suppose if a film were just starting to shift toward red, xenon could help a bit.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 30, 2016, 05:10 PM:

Thanks for both answers. Following what you say, Janice, about the fact that the brighter the lamp is, the best the results are with a filter, a xenon lamp and a filter gives probably the best improvment.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 05, 2016, 11:33 PM:

I tried mine with a black and white film that was printed on red faded color stock.

-pretty good!

Not quite black and white, but something more like sepia tone.

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on August 08, 2016, 12:35 PM:

good observation Steve,
...speaking of black and white, on red stock, or otherwise...,
I am wondering if there is another filter we can use/add that makes the contrast better on b/w films where the faces have whitened a bit. Is there a way to improve that? What filter colour improves contrast?

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 10, 2016, 03:55 AM:

Photoshop [Smile]

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on August 11, 2016, 01:25 PM:

[Smile]

Steve got me thinking more on this and how colour filters can potentially alter a B/W image...I figured maybe someone had tried some different colours to see what could happen to improve contrast.
Although this pertains to photography, this link is interesting in that some have ventured down this path with some interesting results: Coloured filters for B/W Photography
If i had some gels, i would love to experiment further...

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on September 12, 2016, 03:44 PM:

I tested today the filter with two pinkish to redish scopitones and it did work. The picture is improved. I had a sound problem with my 16 mm projector (I use this one seldom, only for magnetic 16 mm films) so I don't know how the filter reacts with very red films but I certainly don't regret my Investment !

Posted by Roger Shunk (Member # 2836) on September 13, 2016, 10:43 AM:

OK count me in on this will order one too since there are so many rave reviews!

Posted by Trevor Massey (Member # 5562) on September 14, 2016, 09:12 AM:

Just tried a cyan filter on a very red film and it works a treat!

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