8mm Forum: Derann across the Ocean, Back in the Day?

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Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 07, 2016, 01:47 PM:

This is mostly a question for North American collectors, but was Derann a presence here back in what we called the Golden Age of Super-8?

They were basically the only fish left in the lake by the time I started collecting sound films in the early 2000s, but were they an active player in the North American film market back when for example Blackhawk was still going strong?

I get the impression maybe they weren't. For example I've been buying off the tables at CineSea for years now and I have seen very few Derann prints there.

Posted by William Olson (Member # 2083) on July 07, 2016, 02:47 PM:

Blackhawk was a big name to me since 1970 but I never heard of Derann until I joined this forum.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 07, 2016, 02:55 PM:

I've always had the impression it was the Internet that really brought Derann to prominence over here.

Even at that rate I didn't find them via a web search, but I used to participate in a filmmaking discussion board and the moderator liked to put up an interesting Super-8 related link every day: one day it was Derann. I was blown away by the idea I could still buy new prints. It was a game changer for me: for one thing I had my first sound projector pretty quickly!

Blackhawk was not squeamish about selling other companies' prints. You would imagine they'd at least have imported some titles from Derann. There was just too much good stuff there to ignore...

-assuming they knew about them in the first place.

Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on July 07, 2016, 04:43 PM:

Great question, Steve -- I'm in North America, and I started collecting films in 1971. I was very active in purchasing films during my "first wave" of collecting in the 1970s and early 1980s. I didn't hear of or know about Derann until my "second wave" of film collecting in the early 2000s.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on July 07, 2016, 05:19 PM:

Back in '75, I had heard of Walton, but like others, only learned of Derann back in the early 2000s.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on July 07, 2016, 05:46 PM:

Derann I got wind of during 1993, Blackhawk had been retired since issuing their 1987 Video catalog - Fascinating thing, Derann released superb titles, equal to Blackhawk in their care and quality - I'm one of the pioneers, starting in the 60's with 16mm Blackhawk, Castle, Columbia and some of the obscure outfits - Then gravitated to 8mm - Bought much used film from Gary at Derann, spoke with Derek on occasion - Shorty

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 07, 2016, 06:03 PM:

Interesting!

Where did the wind come from? Did Derann ever advertise in US-based film magazines back then?

I only talked to Gary a couple of times on the phone, just getting set up. After that it was pure E-mail. Considering how busy he must have been after a used list came out, he was still very e-mail sociable.

-and he always thanked me for my "valuable custom"!

Posted by Douglas Warren (Member # 1047) on July 07, 2016, 06:49 PM:

I came across an ad for Derann in a old issue of Super 8 Filmmaker magazine back in 1981. In the Fall of that year I wrote them a received a catalog. I was surprised to see films such as "Rollerball" and "The Great Escape" in the Super-8 format and in longer digest form,similar to the Universal 8 releases.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 07, 2016, 08:58 PM:

Did you buy anything?

How did it work back then? Phone calls? Paper checks in envelopes?

"Where are the scissors?!!"

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on July 08, 2016, 12:16 AM:

There was a company in Van Nuys, Ca. that had Walton Tom & Jerry's and that is probably where I heard of Derann. This must have been late 70's. Don't remember where I heard about the Van Nuys company. I used to talk to Gary B. on occasion about orders on the phone. I got up early as it was cheaper to call England before a certain time.

Posted by Panayotis A. Carayannis (Member # 1220) on July 08, 2016, 01:15 AM:

Steve,.....even cash in envelopes!!!!

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on July 08, 2016, 01:28 AM:

I remember seeing ads for Derann films in the mid 1970s, but I never ordered directly from them back then. I do have a couple of early Derann catalogs that I received from one or two super 8 distributors here in the USA at the time, so they were also taking orders for DFS films...
Red Fox sold a few prints from Derann and IFS back then too. I bought the Derann Texas Chainsaw Massacre digest there on one of my visits...

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on July 08, 2016, 03:49 AM:

I think in the early days of Derann, most of their rights might only have been for the U.K. and Ireland, so a lot of their films would not have been able to be advertised freely outside of the U.K. and Ireland, but as we all know, where there's a will, there's a way, it was only when they started doing there later deals with 20th Century-Fox and Disney etc. that they procured world rights. I remember seeing in many of Steve Osborne's Reel Images mags that there was a dealer openly advertising Derann releases, and usuing the same artwork, and giving prices in U.S. Dollars (I can't recall who it was at the moment), you've got to remember that a lot of the Derann U.K. releases had versions in German (Rollerball, for one) by German distributors like u.f.a., but as it was easier to buy Derann prints with the original English track, I believe word got around, especially when Derann did the U.A./Warners deal of the late 1970's which saw the likes of "The Adventures of Robin Hood", "42nd Street", "Dodge City", the 2 "Gold Diggers" movies etc. become available, usually in 2 400' extracts, and even 3x400's like "Dodge City" came our way. But I think that Derann was noticed more once the F/L feature's had become the norm, together with Ken Films & Red Fox in the U.S. this pushed them into the limelight, and once Ken & Red Fox pulled out of 8mm, Derann was left to push 8mm to the English speaking market, pretty much worldwide by the time they closed.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on July 08, 2016, 06:16 AM:

I stared collectinv 8mm film in 1984 after my parent bought a Sankyo 501 in 1979. For 5 years the projector was meant for family documentary purposes until my first films joined me in 1984.

In 1996 I studied in Australia and first time to know about Derann. At that time if you send an email (it was email society already) you will receive the late Derann magazines for free even for shipping. I received several times.

Now, many North American knew Derann at the second wave of collecting, i.e 2000s. But I am curious to know during Derann's heyday there was also an American company that par with Derann, i.e Red Fox.

Red Fox almost has the same path with Derann, starting with reddish print to beautiful color ones later on. It was also booming in 1990s. They were in the same league.

So my question to the North American collectors, if you knew Derann just in 2000s, did you know Red Fox (and purchase) in 1990s?.

Cheers,

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on July 08, 2016, 09:47 AM:

I knew of Derann in the early 1980's from an ad in Movie Maker . In the early 80's my first purchase from them was Goldiggers of 1933 . The print quality was so superb that I quickly followed up with orders for all the other Busby Berkely 2 x 400 albums - all great. My first feature length purchase from them was Shane in the 90's, another superb print.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on July 08, 2016, 11:12 AM:

I had not heard of Derann during my original collecting stint which started in the 70's. I only discovered them through this Forum in 2002. My first order was The Fog, 3x600' scope.

Winbert,

I was a customer of Red Fox in the late 70's & early 80's.

Doug

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on July 08, 2016, 12:09 PM:

Strangely, I started buying from US dealers before buying from UK ones. First with Red Fox in the early 80s. The old days of International Money Transfers and surface shipping. Digests (I couldn't afford features) had to travel 6 to 8 weeks before reaching my home. I heard of Derann in the mid 90s, this got me back into collecting. Credit cards, internet (in the early days, my email address was 100434,505) and parcel deliveries in a matter of days... Ahhhh...

Posted by Douglas Warren (Member # 1047) on July 08, 2016, 12:26 PM:

Steve: I didn't purchase anything at that time (1981) but I got my first Super-8 sound films from them in 1986. They had new / old stock of Ken Films and Universal 8 inventory at the time. I bought five 200' sound films from them at bargain prices. I called them and then sent a international postal money order to cover the costs. And Pat is correct,even cash was accepted by them at that time.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 08, 2016, 01:37 PM:

Derann was kind of a problem for me at first because I was a silent collector and had no intention of ever changing that:

1. Denial —"This company over in England makes new Super-8 prints, but they are all sound! This CAN'T be happening!"
2. Anger — "I don't have sound. This kinda sucks!"
3. Bargaining- "I'll show the films on my silent machine!"
4. Depression-"No, that would be stupid!"
5. Acceptance-"There's a Eumig sound projector on Ebay..."

I told my wife: she said "What are you going to do with TWO projectors?"

-"TWO"! (haha!!!)

These days I show silents so rarely that when I do I warn my wife so she won't think she's gone deaf!

Now that it's way too late: Did Derann ever make silent prints?

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on July 08, 2016, 02:08 PM:

I can't think of a single Derann silent release ever - even in their early days - other than one or two short test films to do with (e.g.) setting up a scope lens.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on July 08, 2016, 02:16 PM:

I heard of them from LA films because they advertised the full length feature of "Star Wars". But I didn't purchase anything till my 2nd wave of Super 8 when I moved to New York. And then began my collection of debt!!! [Smile]

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on July 08, 2016, 11:16 PM:

I only heard of Derann from a friend, as at that time I thought Super8 was dead. What made Derann special for me was dealing with Gary over the phone, he was always excellent to deal with. Plus the newsletter would arrive in the post, which always had interesting goodies for sale.

For overseas buyers another big plus, was that we were exempt from "VAT" and what we saved there helped to pay for the postage [Cool]

They were good times.

Posted by Bill Harris (Member # 5473) on July 09, 2016, 11:28 AM:

I started collecting super 8 in the 70's with Blackhawk, of course. Looking through my film invoices, the earliest Derann invoice is from 1989. I believe I heard about Derann through Dave Thomas, who I did a lot of business with in the 80's and 90's.

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on July 10, 2016, 05:51 AM:

Living in England I had heard of Derann Films through buying Movie Maker magazine from about 1973. I was still at school so had to wait until working.

I think I bought my ELMO ST1200 from them too and at that time the hire library was very large so I used the block booking systems where they gave a discount.

From my side, it was later in the seventies when Regent Films had a shop in Blackpool that Blackhawk, Thunderbird were first heard of. I bought a few of them too.

Posted by Douglas Warren (Member # 1047) on July 10, 2016, 11:56 AM:

Bill: I'm glad to see you mentioned Dave Thomas Films. I rarely see him mentioned anymore but I bought the lion's share of my Super-8 collection through him. This was in the time frame of 1987-1990. Roger Williams of Media Arts Associates was another film dealer (the first actually) that I bought quite a few films from.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on July 11, 2016, 01:47 AM:

When I was a kid of about 8 and discovered Star Wars extracts on super 8, the bug firmly bit and it's fair to say most of my pocket money for the next few years would be spent on super 8 cut downs (this was the late 70's).

The most attractive titles to me were always those from the US, Empire Strikes Back, The Omen, Close Encounters, etc.

So my perception of the "big" distributors was always the American and European companies such as Ken, Columbia, Marketing...

My perception of Derann at that time (I would get my hands on all of the catalogues) was a of a smaller UK company with rather average titles, Carry On, etc. and often using less than perfect masters (although to be fair the UA deal was rather a triumph for them, with both Derek and Keith Wilton striving to provide collectors with the highest quality cut downs - just, somewhat naively, not titles that I was really interested in at that time).

Then VHS took hold and most super 8 companies vanished. As we all know, Derann held on (you should see some of their video releases form the early 80's) but then truly came into their own when they realised that the super collectors were still out there.

Deals with ITC, Fox, Warner Bros. brought us the legendary prints we have today, Gremlins, Star Wars, Alien, etc. and this time with only the best master material being sourced.

So, as far as I'm concerned, Derann really became the big boys in the mid-80's and 90's. Looking back, I think the real golden age of super 8 was actually the late 80's to mid-90's and that is singularly due to Derann.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 11, 2016, 11:42 AM:

You're so right Rob, the mid 80's through to around 98 produced the very best choice, largest range and best ever quality Super 8mm features ever made!

The real halcyon days of Super 8mm package feature films and cutdowns. Unbelievable choice of films in this era!! [Smile]

[ July 11, 2016, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on July 12, 2016, 12:13 PM:

Hi,

Yes Andrew, same conclusion to bring from this side here, Derann was the more important Super 8 movie House from the 80's until the end and for each part of the activity (means, Dynamism, volume, variety, 1st Class service, and overall quality of movies.....).

Derann products were early retailed by LGFC (Le Grands Films Classiques, 48 avenue Theophile Gautier, 75016, Paris).

LGFC was basicaly turn to French Classical movies (Very few unfortunately) and Charlie Chaplin Features (ALL Ch. CHAPLIN FULL FEATURES).

This is something important to point out because negatives used to do that were "Top notch quality" ,offering really beautiful prints , in fact, the best you can find in super 8 for these titles at this time.
Also, these are B/W titles released on Colour stock film issued through the 90's.

From my side I have also ordered some Disney's Shorts From "DAVE THOMAS", "JEFF FILMS" (USA) which were offering very Interesting Titles in the 80's / 90'S. It was an excellent service too.
"DAVE THOMAS", "JEFF FILMS" were used to send newsletters to their customers, very well appreciated...

Don't forget "PERRY's MOVIES" (very closed to Heathrow Airport) which bring a lot to the super 8 world. I have some interesting "Hub Iwerk" animated shorts from them......

[ July 13, 2016, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

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