8mm Forum: Mandatory Price Listing in "Films For Sale" Sections

This is topic Mandatory Price Listing in "Films For Sale" Sections in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on August 11, 2016, 09:10 AM:

This subject has come up recently so I'd like to ask for your opinions.

Back in 2011 I wrote:

"I personally am more comfortable knowing the exact amount a seller wants for their print. However, I'm not sure that I would delete a post that doesn't list prices. We have always had non-collectors who find the Forum through a search because they would like to sell a relative's collection, but don't know anything about 8mm. I wouldn't like to discourage those posts."

I still feel that way, however we've also seen knowledgeable members post sales without prices, which as of this writing they have every right to do.

Is it better to have the films made available on the Forum, or do we risk alienating sellers who would not list them otherwise? In the past we've had a number of members on both sides of the issue. Since it has been 5 years, I'd like to know what you think.

Doug

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 11, 2016, 09:52 AM:

If I was selling a print I'd put up a price just to save myself a lot of low-ball offers and other price questions, but I don't see it being exactly mandatory.

A posting of a sales ad on an online discussion forum is kind of an interesting phenomenon. If you saw a sheet of paper on the bulletin board at the supermarket from some guy wanting to sell his bike, you'd never see six more sheets underneath from other people saying "I had one of these bikes, it was awful." or "You're asking for too much money." or "Do you know how to adjust the seat?".

-but here it's just natural to discuss these postings, I do it myself. It's just that it doesn't always go well, especially for the seller.

In the best of all worlds these ads would go up locked, so they'd function more like a classified ad in print media.

-but speaking as somebody who isn't the moderator that's too easy for me to say.

Maybe my main point here is the ads themselves really aren't the big problem, it's the direction the discussion that follows takes that sometimes skids into a swamp.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 11, 2016, 10:02 AM:

I understand your dilemma Doug, but this is not an auction site. If that is what a seller requires there are plenty of good alternatives.
It is not difficult to differentiate between newcomers and posts from regular/frequent user members, by simply checking their Forum rating (we all have one). Also a newcomer would first have to apply and register with you, so you will be aware of them.
The problem is nearly always proliferated by long standing members,who should know better, but in my opinion are just playing the system.
I favour the deleting of these posts. It nearly always culminates in a cluster of pm's asking for prices, which frequently go unanswered.
The member always has the option to re-post with prices. Do nothing and this practise will continue.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 11, 2016, 10:04 AM:

For me personally Doug, I like to see transparency in all items being sold.

By that I mean, if we are to know the exact "going rate" of items now, be it new or experienced collectors, then a comparison between sales is essential in order to establish what an item is actually worth in today's market.

Of course, any item for sale, is only worth what someone else is prepared to pay for it, but by giving prices at all times, even inexperienced people selling relatives estates etc, would be granted a rough idea of what an item should be valued at.

Taking it one step further, I actually believe any films sold on forums or ebay should have at least one or two screen shots to accompany them.

This of course, will not tell the perspective buyer all he or she needs to know about a particular films condition being offered up for sale, but will at least offer a glimpse of what to expect regarding such attributes as colour fade, blue tinge etc etc and give further comparison for future reference when evaluating what a new print coming to market is worth.

That I suppose is for another time but on this one here, for me, all films and equipment should be advertised here with a fixed price.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 11, 2016, 10:07 AM:

Doug
Steve makes a good point. So many replies to a new topic often steer it away from the original poster's intentions.
I would like to see the price of a film, or whatever, quoted, although I suppose it relies on the poster.
A quoted price would sell the item much earlier than repeated replies of "I am interested, how much for ....".

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 11, 2016, 10:58 AM:

The market for films and equipment is kind of funny. We seem to want them a lot, but then again prints and machines are standing out at the curb all the time because "Nobody uses these anymore." and the people who have them have no idea we are here.

I bought a print last month that if the seller wanted $100 for I just may have donated blood to find the money. The seller put it up for 10 bucks and much to my surprise even after I clicked "Buy it Now" I still didn't wake up in a cold sweat. ("NOOOOOOO!!!!!")

He was selling old junk, I was buying treasure: the market kind of failed to work that day (-for the seller!). I bet he still can't believe somebody paid him for it!

Here it could work something like this: In November "Jim" was retiring. He downsized his collection so he and his film-tolerant wife can move to a condo. His pension is good and they're getting a ton from selling the house: money is not a problem. He just wants to move the stuff out so he sells a title for 20 bucks.

The following May "Bob" gets a phone call. If he doesn't send the bank $800 in three weeks they are going to repossess his car. He wants a hundred bucks for that same title.

-should "Jim's" unmotivated price mean "Bob" has to walk to work in June?

Maybe there really isn't a market price: it's just the motivations of one buyer, one seller and the rest is all timing.

-I doubt I'd donate blood for a second print of that same film.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on August 11, 2016, 01:05 PM:

Its a tough one, no one seems to have a definitive answer either, but prices with the films will either attract buyers or detract them, I agree that pictures if possible will help the sale, but even with all the above, I have had insulting remarks about the film I advertised being "too steep" even after 3 or 4 emails going backward and forward even when I have described it accurately so we are and can be an awkward bunch to deal with. Like flea bay you still get the messer's no matter what you do.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 11, 2016, 01:06 PM:

Personally, as a collector and a seller (at times), I certainly prefer seeing a price on any film that is offered on here. If a person is wanting an unreasonable amount (or, in other words much higher than anyone expects), then sell it elsewhere OR, put it up on ebay or otherwise, and then create a link to thier auction on here.

i understand the other point, a new person not knowing all the rules, but then, becoming a member, one really should know what is required of one when doing anything on a forum.

Having said all of that, i do like you're current policies, Doug.

As you well know, there are some, who post films for sale, that are "repeat offenders" in listing films with no prices, and with the number of people who constantly ask "Where is the price?" on thier listings, it's not like they don't know the policy, they do, and are purposefully ignoring it, thereby dishonoring the very forum, forum owners and members that frequent honorably.

The same rules should apply to all, otherwise, EVERYBODY will take the attitude, "Screw the rules and the forum moderators/owners, if they don't apply to this person, they don't apply to me."

Nuff said.

Posted by Jason Smith (Member # 5055) on August 11, 2016, 03:11 PM:

I like the current policy. I personally feel that the market works better the less regulation it has.

However if a price policy was instated, then I believe there should be no tolerance for complaints about price publicly.

Making a counter offer privately is fine but posting your disagreement in the sales thread or a separate thread should also be disallowed. In my brief time here, I've seen too many sale threads be hijacked because of disagreements on price.

If a price policy is implemented, then members who do not list prices should be punished. Also those who dissent on price in a sales thread or who make their opinion known in a seperate thread should also be punished.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 11, 2016, 03:17 PM:

My own opinion is simple,
if you sell on here you should put your price on, this isnt an auction site, anyone who wants to do "the highest bidder " should use ebay, (as i do sometimes), if however you have something for sale and want XXX amount for it, please state that. Only my opinion though.The thread just drags on pointlessly. [Wink]

Posted by Stuart Reid (Member # 1460) on August 11, 2016, 05:36 PM:

I'd like to see prices on here; not only is it fair to all potential purchasers, but it helps as a guide to what films are worth.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 11, 2016, 05:47 PM:

Another valid point to all of this here is, if you are first to meet the asking price of anything offered here, then it is fair to assume the item is yours.

Whilever the price is hidden behind a veil, a seller can of course play one potential buyer off with another.

How would the eventual buyer even know this other person even exists?

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on August 11, 2016, 05:51 PM:

I think it's down to the protacal. If you have people posting on this website not posting prices for obvious reasons, wouldn't you follow suite. Especially if you have well respected players in this field.

Just an observation how this forum has changed somewhat ! Sometimes you need some decorum in this life.

What about the people who either constantly hijack someone's else's sales thread. Or what I strongly suspect this is all down to someone who either doesn't agree to someone's pricing just because they think it's not worth the price. Or who are jealous in what they're trying to achieve on there own merit. Regardless on oppintion or how they actual feel about your achievements.

Does that give someone the right ! I don't think so !

Never mind the bollocks !

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on August 11, 2016, 06:34 PM:

I would prefer that the seller list the price that they would want for the print.

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 11, 2016, 06:40 PM:

In reply to Doug's question the section is called super 8 for sale not offer so in fairness to Buyers the ruling should be mandatory a price must be be given for item to be advertised on the forum and the rule must be applied to all Sellers equally and those who don't follow the rule the thread should be pulled by Admin. Equally, Sellers should be given protection from the derogatory and irrelevant postings on their sales threads from members who simply disagree with them they should be deleted by admin. It's not censorship it plain courtesy. There is general yak section for all the gurning sessions in the world.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 11, 2016, 07:59 PM:

Mandatory price: yes
Commenting on somebody's price: no (if it is an individual seller is silly commenting his/her price!)

[ August 12, 2016, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

Posted by Evan Samaras (Member # 5070) on August 11, 2016, 08:10 PM:

I prefer a listed price.

I feel as though I have been pushed to make offers on items that had no prices- I was places against others and was basically told..."well, someone offered me this much already,, can you beat that price?"

It turned me off to the purchase completely. It does stink to know that others may be pushed from listing films for that reason. However 16mmforum uses this rule and all seems well there.

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on August 12, 2016, 01:17 AM:

I remember Ian did the same. There was some objections but I went along with Ian's request and received 2 films I really wanted. One I still have and the other I sold as I found a better copy.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on August 12, 2016, 02:08 AM:

Thank you for starting this thread Doug it is greatly appreciated.

Yes please to mandatory pricing in the Sales and Trade section (all gauges please not just 8mm) and also mandatory to leave the price it sold for so others can see and reference for future film pricing.

Newbies or established members wanting to find out the possible value of their films - signpost them to this section so they can ask 'What Are My Films Worth?' first before listing them with prices in the sales / trade section.

Very strictly though please allow no comments about prices, however high they may be, in the sellers priced listing. Just questions relating to the print condition, postage costs or request for screenshots etc.

This would encourage sales rather than hinder them and provide a valuable reference for future sellers - the open transparent sales section so many of us would like to see. If the prices are too high the films won't sell as we can see at the moment with some members repeated Ebay re-listings of their features.

Hopefully more members will express their view here to make the most of this rule change opportunity.

Kevin

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on August 12, 2016, 02:43 AM:

I prefer the prices are always listed...
Personally I don't even ask about an item if the price is not present!

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 12, 2016, 06:50 AM:

Flávio
I'm with you on that opinion. If there are no prices I just do not bother enquiring. To me it's just a scam to play one against another and as someone has already said, it is possible that it's just the seller that you're bidding against. ( Shill bidding)
This behaviour should not be tolerated on this Forum, which is a band of brothers with a common interest in assisting others - apart from the unethical few.

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on August 12, 2016, 07:09 AM:

Over on the 16mm forum don't they require prices? I thought I'd seen listings flagged and taken down for not having prices. Frankly, my preference would be prices. When people go fishing for prices on the forum, they might as well go to ebay directly. When forum people don't price, they are in essence setting up their own little auction. It's one thing to go onto the forum and ask people what a film or films might be worth and another to offer up for sale films with no prices attached.

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on August 12, 2016, 11:46 AM:

Mandatory prices, and other requirements just as Kevin stated. And yes, 16mmfilmtalk requires prices on everything listed for sale.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 12, 2016, 11:47 AM:

It appears to be unanimous, Doug!! [Smile]

Andrew, as always, is spot on with his comments concernin this issue.

Posted by Michael Lattavo (Member # 4280) on August 12, 2016, 12:00 PM:

I agree with listing prices - could offer the option to list price OBO.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 12, 2016, 12:04 PM:

I second OBO with a stated price...although I'm not much for "B.O." in general... [Wink]

I also think people who really aren't interested in buying should stay off these threads.

We shouldn't worry a tremendous amount about regulating these sales. We've had more than a decade here and not a lot of complaints. I find wherever you go in this little universe of ours, be it live in person, on paper or on the 'net you keep running into the same couple of dozen people. When somebody shafts somebody else, word gets around pretty fast.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 12, 2016, 12:05 PM:

Im not sure what there is to understand, if it is for sale there must be a price,
If you are selling to "offers" then ebay is your place. Simple.
You dont go to Tesco and not know the price you are paying, would you pick up a trolley full of stuff that said open to offers? then go to the till and be asked what do you want to pay, and then the person get asked behind you whats your offer on this, it wouldn't happen. Its either for sale or its for auction.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 12, 2016, 12:20 PM:

This isn't retail. There are no accountants upstairs to get upset.

No matter what the official price policy is everything is negotiable anyway. I can ask a hundred, and you can offer me 75 or a trade or a hearty handshake.

If that's the best offer I get, whether I said "OBO" or not, It's up to me whether I stick to my price or not.

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on August 12, 2016, 01:12 PM:

I vote for requiring prices on films and equipment offered for sale on the forum [Smile]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 12, 2016, 01:19 PM:

Steve, i do agree with with there 100%, but if a price is asked and an offer is made thats different, what some people are clearly doing is getting other forum members to put in in there bids which to me is ebay without fees. This is not an auction website. [Wink]

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 12, 2016, 02:09 PM:

Steve
Just because members are 'put off' buying from sellers who don't list prices doesn't mean they are not interested in buying. Just that they don't want to get involved in underhand selling scams.
If they were not interested in buying at all then they would not get involved in this thread!
If the rule is to list prices then uphold the rule. Otherwise throw it out. But it is obvious that the majority are in favour of the rule.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on August 12, 2016, 02:31 PM:

Sorry I didn't throw-in about this earlier, as all the thoughts have been typed-in - I must agree with prices, first of all - Like Gary mentioned, otherwise it then becomes a seller's private auction (so to speak) - On the retail end of it, there is no "market" or "book" on films - Most every collector item; Stamps, Comics, Coins, Toys, Figurines, Recordings and the such, all have an accompanying book to help (sometimes hinder)the prospective buyer - When posting a film or films to sell, a price or prices must be linked to it - It would be ludicrous for me to list "Chaplin RBC GOLD RUSH For Sale; PM-me for Price" - Taint fair nor polite not to include the public - I also strongly agree that photos must be included with any film offered, boxed or not - Particular emphasis should be on the soundtrack, titles, countdown-leader, etc - My vote is, make it a standard rule, use price and not think twice - Shorty

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 12, 2016, 02:40 PM:

What I'm getting at is people who aren't really aren't interested in buying the thing at all, even in cases where the price is listed and even reasonable.

There have been cases a couple of times a year where somebody has put up a sales ad and someone else has come on and criticized the item for sale, the price requested and sometimes even the film gauge involved. You can tell from what they are saying they aren't at all interested: just kibitzing.

We are all entitled to our opinion, but whether it's intentional or not this comes across as trying to torpedo the sale. It's easy to take that kind of thing personally.

I can see somebody thinking the price is too high when they seriously want the thing: contact the seller, make a best offer. If you make your case maybe you'll get what you want for what you are willing to pay.

If they ask for the moon and get it too, more power to them!

I agree rules are needed, but let's keep them commonsense, few as possible and lets' also try to police our own selves.

-Doug is a busy guy: let's not turn HIS hobby into a full time, unpaid job!

I'm bending on a price always being stated here, but any commonsense way of exchange should be fine: $100 or best offer, 67 GBP or trade for...", looking to trade for..., 63 Euro negotiable..., $50,000 FIRM. (Dream ON!)

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 12, 2016, 02:54 PM:

Steve
Appreciate your clarification. Now I understand your comment.
My mistake - your fault [Wink]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 12, 2016, 03:04 PM:

OK,

Let's heave the spanner into the machinery properly!

If you place an ad looking for films or equipment...

-do you have to say what you are willing to pay?

(heh, heh, heh, hehhhhh!)

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 12, 2016, 04:18 PM:

Steve
To say that you are going off at a tangent would be a mathematical understatement. What you are describing is not an invitation to get involved in a seller scam. It is just a declaration of hopeful expectation.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 12, 2016, 05:32 PM:

Ah!

-but we've left the business department and we are now in the realm of philosophy!

1) Is not a buyer unwilling to state what they are willing to pay wasting the time of prospective sellers? (Do I have to search through my stuff only to find out they are willing to pay me with postage stamps and twine?)

2) Is every seller wanting to make as much as possible trying to engage is some kind of scam or maybe sometimes engaging in their own hopeful expectations? (Are sellers scammers, but buyers never?)

3) There is such a thing as a reverse auction where several sellers compete for the sale by bidding down what they are willing to charge. Could a buyer unwilling to state a purchase price be encouraging this kind of competition?

4) Isn't "Want Elmo 1200 Foot reels, state your price" equal and opposite of "Have Elmo 1200 foot reels, make me an offer."?

(An old boss of mine called this game "S//thouse Lawyer", although I admit I enjoy it a lot more than he did! -especially after HE got fired!)

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 12, 2016, 11:17 PM:

This what I don't want to see:

quote:

- I am selling a Disney "Princess of the Dragon" 200', Col, Silent. PM me for the price.

- I am selling a Disney "Princess of the Dragon" 200', Col, Silent, $35. (And somebody replies....) Whaaaat $35 I better buy the sound version

- I am selling a Disney "Princess of the Dragon" 200', Col, Silent, $35. (And somebody replies....) Digest is good...but I prefer to wait for a F/L....it is worth for every penny.

- I am selling a Disney "Princess of the Dragon" 200', Col, Silent, $35. (And somebody replies....) I have the same exact title, it is available for sale too.

- I am selling a Disney "Princess of the Dragon" 200', Col, Silent, $35. (And somebody replies....). Forget about silent version, the sound is is much better.

- I am selling a Disney "Princess of the Dragon" 200', Col, Silent, $35. (And somebody replies....). $35 is too much for this...I am not buying if it even $10.

- I am selling a Disney "Princess of the Dragon" 200', Col, Silent, $35. (And somebody replies....) Hey look the same title is also offered here for better price www.princeofdragonfor$2.com

- I am selling a Disney "Princess of the Dragon" 200', Col, Silent, $35. (And somebody replies....) Where can I buy belt for Elmo ST1200 (!!!...sometime it happens like this :-) )

- etc, etc

you may add up for more cases.

Cheers,

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 13, 2016, 07:28 AM:

Steve
I wouldn't class your scenarios as the realm of philosophy. More like the realm of fantasy.
I think we are drifting from the answer to the question that Doug initially put up for debate - ie. That if sales lists are not accompanied by prices then should the post be deleted?
As the original ruling of the moderators is that prices should accompany a sales list and that this rule is being deliberately flouted, I am of the opinion that they should be deleted to bring these members into line. They will have the option of re-posting according to the rules of the Forum.
I am of the opinion that this should be the way to go. You I think have a different opinion.
Fini

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on August 13, 2016, 08:22 AM:

No point me commenting on mandatory prices as it's very clear what everyone feels about this, but I will say that I fully agree that posts should not be subject to price-related comments from members not interested in buying, such as "No sane person would pay that, but good luck!" This has previously caused quite a bit of annoyance and friction that we would all be better off without.

[ August 13, 2016, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

Posted by David Skillern (Member # 607) on August 13, 2016, 08:33 AM:

hi all,

listen - just to throw my twopence into the arena - every collector knows to a certain degree what a print is worth - especially if its a rare print - so do us all a favour - if you're selling a print - put a price with it - then only those individuals with the necessary spondolicks will get in touch - and Doug - i am definitely with you - no price - delete the post - lets keep this forum fair and just.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on August 13, 2016, 02:47 PM:

Thank you all for your comments!

Just to be clear, there is no current rule regarding prices.

I believe that will change on Monday.

Doug

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 13, 2016, 02:57 PM:

Hopefully Doug [Wink]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 13, 2016, 10:57 PM:

Doug, pls in the new rules also stated that any comments other than sale related are not allowed.

When I say "any"..meaning any...that include encouragement, credit, appraisal, comments on the story...etc.

I found that even good comments can drag into negative when somebody is replying.

Allowed comments only for (e.g): film conditioon, length, number of reels, OB, and sort of.

My 2 cents though,

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 13, 2016, 11:13 PM:

Seconded!

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on August 14, 2016, 04:38 AM:

Thirded!

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 14, 2016, 09:08 AM:

Fourthed. [Wink]

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 14, 2016, 02:27 PM:

I claim the fifth [Smile]

Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on August 14, 2016, 06:21 PM:

It's obvious that if you want to sell anything then you need to give an indication as to how much you want for it. Otherwise, people would be asking that very question and taking up your time. Requests for clarification on what the item is are fine as is haggling over the price. Other comments should not be made.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on August 15, 2016, 10:18 AM:

I would prefer to see prices listed. I really can see no reason at all not to do so.

Posted by Ricky Daniels (Member # 95) on August 15, 2016, 01:50 PM:

I agree, list prices... but then keep the comments regarding the listings out of it!

I really got fed up when listing Premium titles only to have my For Sales posts bombarded/hijacked by idiots who thought they should discuss my pricing strategy when it was nothing at all to do with them and they had no intention of making a purchase. I compared this activity to 'a.n. other' overhearing a sales assistant in a store talking to a customer regarding an items price and having said eavesdropper butting in on the sale with their tuppence worth, it's plain rude, wouldn't happen, and it just ain't cricket!

I''d even go as far as to say that For Sale posting cannot be replied too and should be 'locked'! Any further question about the sale should be via PM only between the potential purchaser and the seller... then I'd think about selling here again

Best to all,
Rick

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 15, 2016, 04:17 PM:

I know on another forum John Wayne if you are wanting to sell anything you have to send it to one of the admin team to approve and the listing is locked and all enquiries are private posts between the seller and buyer. Very time consuming and frustrating for all involved especially if you are called Doug who no doubt has a life of his own would like to eat see the sun etc. So if prices are mandatory and a little common sense ( I am saying that a lot theses days must be getting old or turning into my Da) is applied we should be all fine [Eek!]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 15, 2016, 06:30 PM:

Ricky, once an item is advertised for sale in public, it becomes anyone's business, whether interested in purchasing it or otherwise.

A private sale between two individuals is a totally different matter, but a public one will always invite debate whether this benefits the sale or otherwise.

Mass publicity won't just bring you just the reader's you would like to hand pick.

If that's what's desired, just offer an item to a Select chosen few by PM.

Trouble is, you may not get your best price then.

Posted by Marshall Crist (Member # 1312) on August 15, 2016, 07:12 PM:

I think it's rude to list an item for "sale" and not list the price. If you want an auction, go to fleabay.

I think it's rude to swat someone for their asking price being "too high." It discourages listings, and it's unnecessarily combative. If no one nibbles, they will either drop the asking price (and then we have a reverse auction/game of chicken) or go home. No one needs to hear your unsolicited negative opinion on a price. Irony alert: that is my unsolicited opinion.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on August 15, 2016, 09:00 PM:

A new set of Forum Sales Rules is now in effect. Rather than make you travel all the way to the sales section to read them, here they are:
___________________

Forum Sales Rules

To The Seller:
Prices must accompany all sales listings.
If an item is listed without a price, the entire topic will be deleted.

Details are appreciated! Here is what potential buyers would like to know:
Type of film stock?
Magnetic sound, Optical sound, Silent?
Color fade?
Scratches, lines?
Splices?
Number and size of reels?
Original Box?
Method of payment?
Worldwide shipping?

Screen shots are also greatly appreciated!

At the sale's end do not delete any information from the original post. The sale listings are useful for future reference.
If your sale is successful, please add the word “SOLD” to the topic title.

To Potential Buyers:
Questions directly related to purchase (postage, further print details, etc.) are acceptable and encouraged.

Comments & criticisms about prices, the seller, the merits of the film itself, other versions, other sales and the weather are not allowed.
___________________

Thank you all for your opinions and your help in putting this together. Please let me know if you feel additions are necessary or if any clarification is required.

Doug

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 15, 2016, 09:35 PM:

Good ones Doug.

Thanks.....

Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on August 15, 2016, 09:55 PM:

I'm not a collector so from that standpoint I am an outsider. I know one concern was that there may be some sellers who have no idea of what their films (or their relatives films) are worth. Perhaps there could be a sticky that explains how to arrive at a price, - like checking for similar items that have sold on eBay or how much fading impacts price, etc.

Years ago I used to participate in a forum dedicated to "Classic and Vintage" bicycles. These were people that collected, restored, sold, or were just interested in all sorts of old bikes but most often road bikes that were built from the 60's through the 80's.

To most people, one 40 year old road bike is pretty much like the next, but some bikes were much higher quality than others and certain brands and models were favorites of collectors. Lots of people have old road bikes in their garage, or their parents do. Many figure out that some of these bikes are valuable and want to sell them. There were lots of questions in that forum about what a particular bike was worth. So many questions in fact that they eventually dedicated a thread to those inquiries. I don't know if something like that would work here but I thought I'd mention it.

There were plenty of people that enjoyed answering and debating those questions so there was usually ample commentary for those trying to figure out how much to ask for a bike. That type of thread might provide a more constructive avenue for forum members that like to critique others' pricing models. [Wink]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 16, 2016, 04:43 AM:

I am very glad that Doug has made the decision.
This will stop potential sellers dangling sought-after carrots to members without stating a price.

[ August 16, 2016, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Maurice Leakey ]

Posted by Ricky Daniels (Member # 95) on August 16, 2016, 06:00 AM:

Doug,

Sorry to say your guideline are too moveable and tbh no real difference to what went before apart from being in black and white, but still open to abuse.

An item posted on say EBay is not open to the discussions regarding the sale that those who can't help themselves feel the need to post! That's how a Sale should go.

So, once again I am loath to sell anything through this forum and I'm sure I am not the only member who feels this way. Sellers just want a quiet 1-2-1 sale and NOT a debate!

Best,
Rick

Ps Andrew please consider paragraph 2!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 16, 2016, 06:12 AM:

But of course e bay sales are equally not exempt from debate by collectors Ricky.

The forums (all of them), are full of comments debating the various merits or pitfalls of films first seen on e bay by collectors.

Once anything that is a collectible item goes on sale to the general public, no matter where that may be, it will of course offer it open to debate among enthusiasts.

That will never change Ricky, no matter where anyone chooses to sell these things or by what method.

For quiet private 1-2-1 sales, these need to be offered privately and discreetly on a private 1-2-1 basis. That's the only way out, from this dilemma.
As said though, then you or anyone else, may very well not be receiving the highest amount possible for your /their item,by seriously reducing your marketplace to just a handful of people at best.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 16, 2016, 09:29 AM:

Well done Doug - good news. But when you mention that critism and comments are not allowed, how will this be enforced. Hopefully by deleting the aforesaid irrelevant postings?

Posted by Ricky Daniels (Member # 95) on August 16, 2016, 10:23 AM:

Hi Andrew,
With all due respect I'm not convinced and still see the practice of 'butting in' as being very rude and really don't know why anyone would even want to comment on a private sale they are not actually involved in, Why? What's the point? Who are 'they' helping? Inevitably it will be one party only and that's detrimental to the other! Please tell me what the mentality is of someone who feels they need to add their tuppenceworth when in fact they are not or ever will be the purchaser, I don't understand that type of character.
What I will say is alienate sellers on this forum and who knows what rare gems are not being listed, no wonder there's very little of interest here for sale!
Best,
Rick

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on August 16, 2016, 10:23 AM:

Great work Doug, thank you for doing this - looking forward to seeing all film listings with prices and full descriptions, prices left on for reference when sold, and no reply after reply of nonsense comments - exactly what the majority of us always wanted.

Newbies to the hobby / casual new members looking for advice need fear nothing they simply need to be signposted to this section of the forum where they can simply say 'Hello I have a lot of films to sell', list them, and ask for suggested prices.

Then once price suggestions are agreed list again this time with prices in the films for sale section. Simple really isn't it.

Kevin

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 16, 2016, 11:48 AM:

How does anyone ever know Ricky, who a potential customer is?

I've commented on plenty of films offered for sale, many comments I've made have I'd say, helped to promote the Sale, some may have not, who knows?

I buy many many films, but that in itself, doesn't entitle me to only comment on the ones I intend buying, or not comment on the ones I feel are inappropriately priced or are not to my liking.

It's a public forum, so just as the merits and pitfalls of all the various equipment out there is discussed, so then are films and the prices they command.

It's human nature to discuss such topics on a public place of interest for these items, otherwise what else is discussed?
Goat's on roofs maybe???

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on August 16, 2016, 11:53 AM:

Well done, Doug. Good decision.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 16, 2016, 12:02 PM:

I am also happy with this. [Wink]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 16, 2016, 12:44 PM:

Well done, Doug, and well worded, no squirming a way around the new/revamped rules! [Smile]

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