8mm Forum: Any Ferrania news?

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Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on December 02, 2016, 12:10 PM:

Just curious. I received a camera from eBay yesterday. When I opened the back, there was a roll of film in there. Well, I quickly shut the back and rewound the film. Might be ruined. I think they had gone through the entire roll and just hadn't rewound it, so maybe I just wrecked the last few frames.

Anyway it's a roll of Imation film which I believe was made by Ferrania. It reminded me I haven't heard anything in a bit.

As a side note, I asked the previous owner of the camera if they wanted me to ship the roll back and they said no. I have a feeling they were just reselling the camera anyway and weren't the original owner. I'm new to developing color film so I was going to practice on it. What are the chances of me getting anything decent out of film that was shot 15+ years ago and accidentally exposed by opening the camera back?

Still planning on processing my own super 8 film at some point, but in the meantime I'm learning on 35mm stills.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on December 02, 2016, 01:17 PM:

It seems that Ferrania finally understood that communication is important. They post about once a week photos or a video of their progress. They are still testing their products but the light is in sight.

Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on December 02, 2016, 01:31 PM:

That's good news. Kodak likes to talk about Super 8, but they don't really seem to be doing anything. It will be good to have another source of film.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on December 02, 2016, 01:44 PM:

Someone asked this question (I erased the name) : "Where is the new super 8??? In Jan. Kodak said is was releasing it in Nov/Dec?"
25 novembre, 04:56
The answer :
Kodak Plans are being finalized, details to be announced soon. Stay tuned.

[Smile]

Posted by David Michael Leugers (Member # 166) on December 04, 2016, 07:01 PM:

Tom

Check out these examples of that still film made by Ferrania.
web page I look forward to Ferrania getting back into film production.

Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on December 05, 2016, 09:24 AM:

Hi David,

Sorry, I would love to see the pictures but the link doesn't appear to be working.

I did process the imation film that I had accidentally partially exposed. While I was waiting for the negatives to dry I saw what appeared to be a giraffe in one of the pictures. I thought maybe the previous owner of the camera had gone on an African safari or something like that.

Not quite so exciting as it turned out. The poor giraffe was apparently a resident of the Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago.

The pictures weren't exactly perfect. All the edges had a purplish fog to them, - I'd guess as a result of my opening the camera back. Aside from that they weren't too bad. Since the film was a decade or two old, it was actually kind of encouraging.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 01, 2017, 04:16 PM:

Ferrania has announced the opening of their shop in about 11 days : http://www.filmferrania.it/shop/

Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on March 01, 2017, 04:36 PM:

Great News !

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on April 14, 2017, 01:03 AM:

Diasppointing answer from Ferrania. I asked : "When will the movie stock (16/8 and 35 unperfored) be available ?" I got this reply : "Cine stocks will be available when we have the appropriate capacity to produce them, the finances to do so and enough bandwidth for our 7-person factory team to be able to test them thoroughly. In other words, all in good time (except unperfed 35, which we will probably not produce except by special order - and special order films are FAR in the future)."

Posted by Alexander Vandeputte (Member # 1803) on April 14, 2017, 02:32 PM:

Indeed disappointing is some way. I am a Kickstarter backer for the Ferrania project and I was under the impression that we would have super 8 by this summer...
But now it looks like re-introduction of Ektachrome 100D will beat them to the market.

Posted by Bruno Heughebaert (Member # 2756) on April 14, 2017, 02:39 PM:

Do not be disappointed Dominique you know that i will come back soon from nyc with some tri-x cartridges for you.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 14, 2017, 05:25 PM:

Why would anyone use Ferrania if Ektachrome is available? Seems to me Ferrania have missed the boat. Too little, too late.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on April 14, 2017, 05:58 PM:

Bruno, Ferrania could have provided 35 unperfored film which is what is needed to make 9.5 films, so it is disappointing that they say now that they are not sure to manufacture it and that would anyway not be soon at all. I know that super 8 stock is still manufactured and available but colour stock is rare and pricey, so Ferrania had a role to play. If you wait too long to provide filmstock, people will just give up. we were hoping to have super 8 cartidges from Ferrania one year ago and that didn't happen. I was, like Alexander, expecting super 8 film for this Summer (and I was also hoping to have 9.5 filmstock before the end of this year) ; it seems that it will not be the case. So, yes, I'm disappointed. Not only by the fact that things go very slow but by the lack of communication from the Italian company.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 14, 2017, 06:03 PM:

Seem's to me the Kickstarter's should ask for their money back. [Frown]

Posted by Bryan Chernick (Member # 1998) on April 14, 2017, 11:13 PM:

They are coating film, I have 5 rolls of 35mm P30 black and white Beta film on its way right now. The P30 film was a result of running a test of the coating machine. They made an offer of the P30 Beta to Kickstarter participants and sold out all of it in a few days. They expect to fufill the color reversal Kickstarter rewards later this year but don't have a date yet. It's a complicated process to make color reversal film but they are making good progress now.

Posted by Simon McConway (Member # 219) on April 15, 2017, 02:31 AM:

Yes, they are now beginning to take TOO long over this.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on April 15, 2017, 02:33 AM:

Bryan, as Paul said, they will come too late if Kodak brings back a colour reversal super 8 film before Ferrania. They should have focused on cine reversal film instead of still camera stock that was already available. This will be the second Summer without cine filmstock...

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 15, 2017, 04:05 AM:

I completely agree Dominique. Reversal stock is what is needed the most and the most urgently now.

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on April 15, 2017, 11:06 AM:

I think crowd funding exercises are always fraught and risky at the best of times. Watching how the Ferrania escapade has progressed does not inspire me that it will ever come to fruition or any of the sponsors will ever receive the items promised or money returned.

As they say pay your money take your chance.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 15, 2017, 11:35 AM:

Fraught with danger!

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on April 15, 2017, 01:11 PM:

I could have used more blunt terms but I thought I would give you a thrill with the danger💩

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on April 15, 2017, 02:47 PM:

I've heard one or two people claim that the Ferrania 'project' is just a way to tempt unsuspecting people to part with their money, but from what I've gathered at least some of the people involved are known, and work at the factory has been quite well documented via photos and reports. If these accounts are accurate, perhaps the staff are displaying commendable determination to overcome problems, even if they may have underestimated the challenges.

If any Italian forum member lives near the factory, it would be good if they could visit as an 8mm Forum representative, see the facilities and meet staff. A report on such a visit could be very interesting in terms of gaining a detached view that considers the chances of future production.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 15, 2017, 02:50 PM:

Seeing is believing as they say Adrian!

I would never for one second subscribe to ANY crowd funding expedition, no matter what the incentive or passion.

If an incentive, concept or subsequent business model is good enough, it should never require ANY external funding.

[ April 15, 2017, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on April 15, 2017, 05:37 PM:

I can only say that it is one thing to coat a backing with a single layer of photosensitive material and another to produce an integral tripack of emulsions with filter layers. and the chemicals to reversal develop it.

That could be a comment on the project both ways they could be going slowly checking that everything works well, or just delaying by doing the easy stiff to get money in and not intend to go to reversal colour.

If you have faith in them you have faith which is not always logical but just a feeling.

I hope they will succeed. I used Ferrania stock (reversal still and cine) with home development and the colours from the early 1970s are still good and would use it again.

Posted by Fabrizio Mosca (Member # 142) on April 16, 2017, 04:02 AM:

Hi Dominique,
from a commercial standpoint, it's quite understandable that they will sell unperforated films only after all their products will be available to public, otherwise other firms or individuals may sell 8mm or 16mm films with their stock. Maybe they also have in mind special orders for already perforated 9.5mm films or possible agreements with someone else.
In any case, if Kodak comes out with 100D as they announced, they have definetly lost their train...

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on April 16, 2017, 04:56 AM:

Hello Fabrizio. What I blame them for is that from their last answer cine filmstock seems not to be nor a priority nor even Something important for them. They even suggest that producing cine film will need things they don't seem to have enough (I quote : "the appropriate capacity to produce them, the finances to do so and enough bandwidth for our 7-person factory team to be able to test them thoroughly"). Their communication is close to zero. People are waiting for Ferrania super 8 cartridges and were hoping to see the first ones manufactured in May or June and now we learn almost "by chance" (because I asked them about that) that cine filmstock is not for a foresable future. Is that serious ? I understand it is not easy but we have been waiting for so long now. We deserve a better communication. About the 35 mm unperfored film, I have no problem if it is sold to choosen labs for specific purposes (like to Color City to make 9.5 film) but when they say : "unperfed 35, which we will probably not produce except by special order - and special order films are FAR in the future", it dosen't look like they are aware that people are waiting for filmstock. Now, not after 10 years...

[ April 16, 2017, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: Dominique De Bast ]

Posted by Fabrizio Mosca (Member # 142) on April 16, 2017, 11:41 AM:

Hi Dom, your and all the other guys' disappointment is crystal clear and definetly motivated. What I do hope is that the P30 will go from an "Alpha" stage (the one they sold now) to a "Beta" and to Productive phase, so they may move on color stock. My fear is that also P30 productive phase is far too long.

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on April 16, 2017, 05:47 PM:

To be honest. I had given up on Ferrania a year ago and i'm glad I never paid into any kickstarter campain. Im now more convinced that this is all ONE BIG CON. Im pretty certain in my mind that we will see Ektachrome long before any Ferrania colour movie film surfaces.

Graham S

Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on April 16, 2017, 11:09 PM:

I don't think it's a con, but I do think there are some harsh realities for an endeavor like this. One could hope for more frequent communication from them but no one likes to communicate failure so they put it off until they have better news to pass on. Not an advisable approach but an all too common one.

For the moment I'm actually enjoying my B&W photography more than color anyway and I think that's true of a lot of people that still shoot film. So getting some product out there and having a source of revenue makes sense. Hopefully the volume will be enough to justify the investment in equipment, supplies, and staff to produce color film. However, since Kodak is supposed to be selling Ektachrome by the end of the year, one has to wonder if that will leave much of a market for Ferrania.

If their P30 still film becomes more widely available I'll buy some and do my part. I'd like to see more choices out there in the market. I'm hoping to shoot more Super 8 this summer but it doesn't look it's going to be reversal at this point unless I take my chances on some old stock from Ebay.

Posted by Bryan Chernick (Member # 1998) on May 18, 2017, 01:15 PM:

This is the latest update:
Quiet Means Busy

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on May 18, 2017, 04:08 PM:

From their latest post it is pretty obvious that the pre orders are their priority i .e get money in for goods. No specifics that they are shipping camera film or cine film. Pretty obvious that the backers / kick starters are most definitely not their priority more an annoyance. You have let them buy equipment that is the only mention. You have no legal rights or redress. You may get your reward in weeks or years or like never. It is their choice really. Just don't annoy them ever. If they are commercial successful you might get what you are promised but it go bust well Thanks for your money and That's All Folks.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 18, 2017, 06:17 PM:

They had better get a jog on it seems, especially if Ektachrome beats them to the finish line!

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on May 18, 2017, 08:51 PM:

If I had put money into this project I would be very unhappy at the dismissive tone of Ferrania's latest posting.

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on May 19, 2017, 11:57 AM:

I do not think that I will be once again be loading my Pathe Lido with Ferrania again in my lifetime!! A great pity in a way because the old MC25 colour stock was very good and stable given good processing. Ken Finch.

Posted by Nick Collingwood (Member # 5356) on May 19, 2017, 01:34 PM:

I think it's funny and interesting how everyone thinks it is easy and quick to start up a dead factory and just start pumping out cine film. As a relative newcomer in the industry, I can appreciate the effort they are putting in and the wait. I missed the initial kickstarter but have been following their blogs closely over the last year and it they are definitely doing work, not just sitting around wondering how to waste your money. Making P30 to refine their machines is just part of that process.

I think the tone in their recent blog post is just in response to the constant vitriol they've been receiving lately. I get that they're not the most communicative but they are one of the rare companies trying to revive a film stock. Who else is doing this? I've spoken recently with someone at FF and they are definitely working hard to make film on a tight budget while also giving a livable life to their workers. Unlike here in America, they aren't working weekends and they take an honest to God lunch break. Plus there's only 7 of them trying to get the whole factory up and running.

New55's timeline wasn't too far removed. They launched March 2014 and made final deliveries September of 2016 so around 30 months. FF was Sept 30, 2014 and if rewards ship by end of the year (which they may not) that's around 36-40 months. Plus a low cost of investment is precisely what Kickstarter is. Not a store. And you didn't invest 2 million into a company all by yourself. Maybe a few hundred which if you can't afford in the first place, don't pledge.

If you guys honestly wish for the death of a company trying to restart manufacture film then by all means... have fun with your DSLRs... And Kodak isn't much better in regards to their Ektachrome. That's probably a year or so off and they have much better infrastructure yet are still slow. And their camera?? Where's that?

I'm just happy for anything positive for film. With Fujifilm killing off films left and right (2 more killed this week), I'm just grateful for any companies sticking around... slow as they may be. This post isn't meant to be as harsh as it may sound haha. I just really really want them to succeed! So I'm putting any faith I have in them!!

Posted by Bryan Chernick (Member # 1998) on July 26, 2017, 10:36 PM:

A quote from Dave with Ferrania on the Apug forum.

quote:
In fact, because "regular" 8mm film is infinitely easier to produce, it's likely that we will produce a small batch to release alongside Super 8 - just to see how it goes. We have already had a conversation about this as a future prospect because there are so many working 8mm cameras out there that are currently performing decorative duties on fireplace mantles and side tables...

By the way, I just got my rolls of Ferrania P30 Beta in 35mm last week. I'll be shooting a roll soon.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 28, 2017, 02:38 AM:

The question is : "When ?" 😖

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on January 22, 2018, 12:15 PM:

Ferrania, among other things, says : "By late-Summer 2018, after clearing the hurdles for converting, we can begin initial testing on color reversal film." It seems that they still intend to manufacture "one day" reversal film but Kodak will probably be faster.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on January 22, 2018, 02:55 PM:

......and better!

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on January 25, 2018, 05:18 AM:

Prompted by the Kodak thread I had another look on their site. It seems they can't even get the p30 B&W stock into cartridges fast enough yet!!!
Here's their latest update: -
"For those of you ready to stop reading now, here is the rest of this update in 4 bullets.

We are manufacturing P30 film, but getting it into cartridges at the right volume has become an issue that we have been trying very hard to fix. The video below shows this converting process.

The only real fix is the ultimate one: install the machines you helped us buy. We knew this from the beginning - but the best temporary solution we could find has very strict limits. So we have begun working on installing our 120 machines to help with the bottleneck.

By late-Summer 2018, after clearing the hurdles for converting, we can begin initial testing on color reversal film.

We are reopening our online shop on Thursday, January 25th, in the US/CAN first, and elsewhere soon after. "

Believe it when you see it???

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on January 25, 2018, 01:28 PM:

I don't konw what to say.. I've long lost all of my confidence in this enterprise... This whole story proves only one thing: crowdfunding should have strict regulations and it should be possible to:
a) determine in a straightforward, inappellable way what the funding is intended for and consequntly easily judge whether or not the fundung has been properly used

b) entitle the backers to a (possibly) full refund in case the answer to the above is a negative one, under penalty of suing.

I have backed several crowdfunded projects before this one and I must admit all of them delivered what they promised... I guess this is the exception that confirms the rule, albeit.... [Confused]

Posted by Simon McConway (Member # 219) on January 28, 2018, 03:08 PM:

We would have every right to ask them for full accounts showing how our money has been spent. A legal contact confirms that there would be a case if we were all to sue them, should no product appear. Personally, I am giving it until the end of 2018 before I begin to proceed to get my money back. Even that though, is TOO long to wait.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on January 28, 2018, 04:06 PM:

I am very far from the factory, which is in the North, I live in the south of Italy, otherwise I would have done a ride with pleasure!

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on January 28, 2018, 04:30 PM:

Simon, in Italy we have had class action for a few years now, so that might be an option. Perhaps we should start counting us to such a goal..

Posted by Jose Artiles (Member # 471) on January 28, 2018, 07:11 PM:

Forget Ferrania folks, kodak is the answer and i can assure you kodak will kill ferrania project for sure.

Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on January 29, 2018, 12:42 PM:

Jose, that might be true, but it's no comfort to folk like Simon who has obviously backed them with his hard earned money.

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